Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

Clock-la · Jul 19, 2011 9:19 PM

oh good lord this is getting stupid now.

Neotyguy40 · Jul 19, 2011 10:43 PM

Swaffy wrote:

Okay, I have come to this conclusion:
In the Chinese culture, it's okay for them to keep living [but dying] animals
in tiny little bags to be used as keychains.
Our culture should make it okay to use Chinese people as keychains.
Problem solved.

I love you.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Jul 19, 2011 11:27 PM

bmah wrote:

I'm just pointing out how people in other countries play the rules differently. It is easy to mistakenly assume that Western ideology is universal.

... i would certainly like to think that the idea that it's wrong to needlessly hurt something with feeling (no soul? okay, even in body/mind they still "feel") would be universal.

actually, i don't even like needlessly hurting things without feeling, meaning, inanimate objects. if destruction has no purpose, why do it?

Neotyguy40 · Jul 19, 2011 11:40 PM

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

bmah wrote:
I'm just pointing out how people in other countries play the rules differently. It is easy to mistakenly assume that Western ideology is universal.
... i would certainly like to think that the idea that it's wrong to needlessly hurt something with feeling (no soul? okay, even in body/mind they still "feel") would be universal.
actually, i don't even like needlessly hurting things without feeling, meaning, inanimate objects. if destruction has no purpose, why do it?

Buddhism is a very open option for you.

Though it originated in China. Are you okay with that?

bmah · Jul 19, 2011 11:54 PM

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

bmah wrote:
I'm just pointing out how people in other countries play the rules differently. It is easy to mistakenly assume that Western ideology is universal.
... i would certainly like to think that the idea that it's wrong to needlessly hurt something with feeling (no soul? okay, even in body/mind they still "feel") would be universal.

Of course, that in itself is agreed upon by just about everybody. But I repeat, it's not always obvious to someone else what is considered "hurt" to you. See my previous posts...animal activists would see seal hunting as "needlessly hurting [the seals]" but it's a necessity for the people who hunt for a living, as an example.

This case about aquatic animals in pouches however seems far less legitimate.

Swaffy wrote:

Okay, I have come to this conclusion:
In the Chinese culture, it's okay for them to keep living [but dying] animals
in tiny little bags to be used as keychains.
Our culture should make it okay to use Chinese people as keychains.

...no

Not Chinese culture itself, but Chinese business practices are less up to par with our standards. Sort of like how Chinese restaurants aren't usually up to standards with cleanliness: they emphasize the food (quality, quantity, cheapness/frugality) and tend to put the cleanliness/atmosphere to a lower priority.

Our culture can still disagree and advocate against the use of those keychains. The best you can do is to shake your head.

@Neot: iirc, I think Buddhism originated in India, but w/e

Latias fan · Jul 19, 2011 11:58 PM

Clock-la wrote:

oh good lord this is getting stupid now.

This is. Animals dying is wrong, What a buttload of *bleep*.

bmah · Jul 20, 2011 12:05 AM

Latias fan wrote:

Clock-la wrote:
oh good lord this is getting stupid now.
This is. Animals dying is wrong, What a buttload of *bleep*.

For those of you who think I'm trying to legitimize these products, I'm clearly not. Stop skimming through the thread and making these conclusions.

Stormy · Jul 20, 2011 12:29 AM

Well, he wasn't necessarily talking about you....

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

bmah wrote:
I'm just pointing out how people in other countries play the rules differently. It is easy to mistakenly assume that Western ideology is universal.
... i would certainly like to think that the idea that it's wrong to needlessly hurt something with feeling (no soul? okay, even in body/mind they still "feel") would be universal.
actually, i don't even like needlessly hurting things without feeling, meaning, inanimate objects. if destruction has no purpose, why do it?

I agree with this; it's the reason I prefer to take bugs outside instead of squishing them, despite people calling me crazy for it. But some (not me) might argue that the keychains do have a purpose: profit for the company selling them and entertainment for the consumer, which makes it okay.

Neotyguy40 · Jul 20, 2011 12:51 AM

End result of thread that I hope we can all agree on:

Cultures are strange. Respect them.
Morals are different. Debate them.
Religion is no base for ethics.
Corporations will do anything for a quick buck.
I got a fishy because of this thread.
Carthage must be destroyed.

bmah · Jul 20, 2011 1:13 AM

Stormy wrote:

But some (not me) might argue that the keychains do have a purpose: profit for the company selling them and entertainment for the consumer, which makes it okay.

Pretty much the reason why they're selling these things. Not that I'd do it.

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Corporations will do anything for a quick buck.

Yeah, this especially.

Stormy · Jul 20, 2011 1:18 AM

bmah wrote:

Stormy wrote:
But some (not me) might argue that the keychains do have a purpose: profit for the company selling them and entertainment for the consumer, which makes it okay.
Pretty much the reason why they're selling these things. Not that I'd do it.

Right, I'm just pointing out that there is a reason, just not one that we would like.

I disagree that religion shouldn't be a base for ethics, but that's not the topic so I won't say anything more about it.

Swaffy · Jul 20, 2011 2:32 AM

bmah wrote:

Swaffy wrote:
Okay, I have come to this conclusion:
In the Chinese culture, it's okay for them to keep living [but dying] animals
in tiny little bags to be used as keychains.
Our culture should make it okay to use Chinese people as keychains.
Problem solved.
...no

Shumbody can't sense ... sharcashm!
[Also, the color "waffle" is the same as the color "black."]

Clock-la · Jul 20, 2011 9:39 AM

Latias fan wrote:

Clock-la wrote:
oh good lord this is getting stupid now.
This is. Animals dying is wrong, What a buttload of *bleep*.

Like I said earlyer: for food its fine, we hace to eat, animal eat animals, and we to are animals.

but for keyrings and "coats" or rugs, i think thats going across the line hmm

Aceedwin · Jul 20, 2011 10:22 AM

Clock-la wrote:

Like I said earlier: for food it's fine, we have to eat, animals eat animals, and we too are animals.
But for keyrings and "coats" or rugs, I think that's going across the line.

Nope. We don't have to eat meat. Vegetarians get along fine without meat. And I once took on about six people on this forum arguing that a universal conversion to vegetarianism would be beneficial to mankind, and I came out with four out of five reasons unscathed. So you can't defend eating animals with "we have to", because we don't have to, and if we were logical beings, we would not. But we are all hedonists, deep down, it's part of humanity, so we eat meat irrationally.

Also, spellcheck.

bmah wrote:

Oh no, I'm not suggesting you to fit into their codes of morality. We have our own and we're going to stand by them. If you see it as wrong, I don't expect you to change your mind.
I'm just pointing out how people in other countries play the rules differently. It is easy to mistakenly assume that Western ideology is universal.

Then we are in agreement. People whine about people who force their morality on others, but really, if you don't, you're probably not very invested in your own morality anyway. Trying to stop something you see as immoral is applaudable, in any case.

Clock-la · Jul 20, 2011 10:53 AM

yes but thats there choice. If a human wishes to eat meat i don't think there going to burn in hell for doing so, after all why else do we have the Canine tooth

Aceedwin · Jul 20, 2011 11:14 AM

Clock-la wrote:

Yes, but that's their choice. If a human wishes to eat meat, I don't think they're going to burn in hell for doing so, after all, why else do we have the Canine tooth?

We also have the choice to burn down houses and murder our neighbours. Indeed, our bodies are capable of such deeds. But is it wrong to do so? I think so. The only justifications we can make for eating meat is if we are in a situation where we have to eat meat to survive, due to scarcity of vegetable matter, or because that is what we want. One is situational, the other is hedonistic.

I'm all for animal testing though. Don't think I'm saying all this because I like animals. I just think eating animals is not in the best interests of my species.

Also, spellcheck.

Clock-la · Jul 20, 2011 2:46 PM

Aceedwin wrote:

Clock-la wrote:
Yes, but that's their choice. If a human wishes to eat meat, I don't think they're going to burn in hell for doing so, after all, why else do we have the Canine tooth?
We also have the choice to burn down houses and murder our neighbours. Indeed, our bodies are capable of such deeds. But is it wrong to do so? I think so. The only justifications we can make for eating meat is if we are in a situation where we have to eat meat to survive, due to scarcity of vegetable matter, or because that is what we want. One is situational, the other is hedonistic.
I'm all for animal testing though. Don't think I'm saying all this because I like animals. I just think eating animals is not in the best interests of my species.
Also, spellcheck.

so eating an animals wrong but locking them up and testing on them for no reson what so ever is a good thing?

ontels · Jul 20, 2011 3:40 PM

If it saves a himan life then yes.

Eating meat dosent save anyone, infact it means that starving people don't get food because that food is being given to animals that the rich then eat.

Aceedwin · Jul 20, 2011 6:29 PM

Someone didn't pay attention in Biology. It strikes me as confusing when you say animal testing has no reason. Animal testers aren't people who just inject animals with dangerous chemicals for the lulz. They work for drugs companies, who have to pass strict tests on their drugs, tests that usually take years. Without animal testing, drugs that would save thousands of lives have to be held back for months or longer.

Neotyguy40 · Jul 20, 2011 7:12 PM

Despite popular belief, most people who become vegetarians become VERY unhealthy.

Unless done right, you can damage your body very easily due to malnutrition. Vegetarians have to learn to eat correctly, and in many cases plan out their meals well in advanced to avoid accidentally hurting themselves.

It is better to eat healthy with meat then to eat healthy without it.

People just choose to eat unhealthy with it, which disgusts me.

JazzJackrabbit · Jul 20, 2011 7:31 PM

Anyone read about Mark Zuckerburg's personal challenge for 2011? His challenge is to only eat meat from animals he kills.
http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/ … -he-kills/

ontels · Jul 20, 2011 8:59 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Despite popular belief, most people who become vegetarians become VERY unhealthy.
Unless done right, you can damage your body very easily due to malnutrition. Vegetarians have to learn to eat correctly, and in many cases plan out their meals well in advanced to avoid accidentally hurting themselves.
It is better to eat healthy with meat then to eat healthy without it.
People just choose to eat unhealthy with it, which disgusts me.

My brother and sister are vegetarians and are just as healthy as anyone.

Clock-la · Jul 20, 2011 9:02 PM

Aceedwin wrote:

Someone didn't pay attention in Biology. It strikes me as confusing when you say animal testing has no reason. Animal testers aren't people who just inject animals with dangerous chemicals for the lulz. They work for drugs companies, who have to pass strict tests on their drugs, tests that usually take years. Without animal testing, drugs that would save thousands of lives have to be held back for months or longer.

actually in biolagy the main reson for not to animal test was due to fact animals they test on are not humans, therefor the testing is pointless.

so realy killing an animal to eat is crule, yet blinding a bunny with shampooh to see how it will effect human eyes is fine, tbh i'd rather be killed and eaten, then tested on and torcherd. hmm

ontels · Jul 20, 2011 9:08 PM

If we didn't test on that bunny there would be allot of horribly blinded people right now, maybe even you or you close ones.

Stormy · Jul 20, 2011 10:16 PM

ontels wrote:

If it saves a himan life then yes.
Eating meat dosent save anyone, infact it means that starving people don't get food because that food is being given to animals that the rich then eat.

Livestock are fed food that's fit for human consumption? Only the rich eat meat? This is news to me.

#126 Jul 19, 2011 9:19 PM

Re: Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

#127 Jul 19, 2011 10:43 PM

Re: Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

#128 Jul 19, 2011 11:27 PM

Re: Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

#129 Jul 19, 2011 11:40 PM

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#130 Jul 19, 2011 11:54 PM

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#131 Jul 19, 2011 11:58 PM

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#132 Jul 20, 2011 12:05 AM

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#133 Jul 20, 2011 12:29 AM

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#134 Jul 20, 2011 12:51 AM

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#135 Jul 20, 2011 1:13 AM

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#136 Jul 20, 2011 1:18 AM

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#137 Jul 20, 2011 2:32 AM

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#138 Jul 20, 2011 9:39 AM

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#139 Jul 20, 2011 10:22 AM

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#140 Jul 20, 2011 10:53 AM

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#141 Jul 20, 2011 11:14 AM

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#142 Jul 20, 2011 2:46 PM

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#143 Jul 20, 2011 3:40 PM

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#144 Jul 20, 2011 6:29 PM

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#145 Jul 20, 2011 7:12 PM

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#146 Jul 20, 2011 7:31 PM

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#147 Jul 20, 2011 8:59 PM

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#148 Jul 20, 2011 9:02 PM

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#149 Jul 20, 2011 9:08 PM

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#150 Jul 20, 2011 10:16 PM

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