Osama is Dead (Not a joke)

Neotyguy40 · May 05, 2011 2:37 AM

Aceedwin wrote:

It's anti-conformist to have respect for other cogniscent beings? Huh, who knew.

You have respect for Osama? Wow... Didn't expect THAT from anyone...

Of course, I'm just being sarcastic, I know what you meant. You don't actually respect him, that's probably just the first way you thought of wording it. However, I think that acknowledging the other side of the spectrum isn't really appropriate in a time like this.

I will admit, it is usually very good to critically think about something. However, when it comes to something that is certain and undebatable, there is no use to analyze something in another way. It only creates an argument between two groups that are clearly on the same side (similar to trolling, but accidental). Thinking that way will give you a different perspective, but another perspective on a sphere is still viewed as a sphere. I don't think this is the kind of subject where the need to analyze this. I don't know what 'cogniscent' means, and I can't seem to find it as a word anywhere, but if it means anything as to what I know in latin, I highly doubt that is an acceptable representation of Osama. Osama wasn't a man who grew up under oppression or poverty or loneliness. He was born rich (REALLY rich if you consider others around him), he went to college, he was even living it up in a mansion when we found him. Heck, the only thing I could think of that I could think of that's even partially depressing in his life before Al-Queda was being against (not even fighting them himself) the Soviet Union. Nothing enticed him to terrorize people other than his own malevolent nature.

Besides, even if this entire argument was just ignored, rebutted, or whatever, I still don't understand how celebrating that Osama is gone is being "tasteless". I feel like this is just tossing out random words. It feels like this is just making an argument out of nothing. Hence why I said 'anti-conformist'. I was just trying to say something a bit politer than ANOTHER word in my mind.

ontels · May 05, 2011 9:09 AM

It's just respect for Human life. Don't hold the dead like a trophy lest you become a barbarian yourself.

Clock-la · May 05, 2011 3:56 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Swaffy wrote:
Stormy wrote:
Seriously though, this argument was pointless from the beginning.
You're awesome. You beat me to saying that.
[hr:ba8389093c]
I also learned something new within the past 1 day.
[Highlighting text by use of keyboard - more accurate]
- Click somewhere in the text.
- Hold down Shift key.
- Use arrows to highlight the crap you want to highlight.
- Do stuff.
I don't understand, you mean highlighting without a mouse? Everyone knows that! It's like using the tab button to get to the next form.
I'm guessing you meant something different, can you explain?
Clock-la wrote:
^^I assume he's pointing out the spelling error quite a big one at that XD
Anyway I don't think we should celibrate it no matter how bad the person was. at the end of the day a man was killed, no matter what crimes he did or how evil he was we should'nt be cheering.
prince-Dari wrote:
I agree, celebrating it is just tasteless.
Pfft, screw that anti-conformist crap. I'm happy that he is dead, and I'm gonna celebrate!

Well your no better than him then.

Swaffy · May 05, 2011 5:37 PM

Whoa, the first grammatically correct sentence I've seen from Clocky in
a while. Well done, well done. [No sarcasm intended.]

Clock-la · May 05, 2011 5:39 PM

Thanks...I guess. XD

Aceedwin · May 05, 2011 5:45 PM

No, she didn't use an apostrophe.

Correction: Well you're no better than him then.

Stormy · May 05, 2011 7:28 PM

*"Well, you're no better than he, then." or something like that

But who actually types like that? tongue

Clock-la · May 05, 2011 8:18 PM

My mother!

Anyway maby I should put "In some respects you're no better thasn he is."

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · May 05, 2011 8:31 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

I still don't understand how celebrating that Osama is gone is being "tasteless".

celebrating that he's gone isn't tasteless, but celebrating that he's dead certainly is; how is it not tasteless to celebrate the loss of life? that's exactly what we hate the terrorists for, killing and then celebrating the deaths.

aside from the motives of the murders themselves, when terrorists do it, it's all un-American, and unjustifiable evil and all that to celebrate that somebody died. it's like, why would you do that, we're sitting here mourning and you're all happy and etc etc etc. but when we do it, suddenly showing pride for our cause in such a manner is perfectly fine.

i'm certainly not justifying the terrorists, i hate what they've done and i'm glad we're taking the initiative to stop things like it in the future, but i just don't feel right stooping to their very level and shamelessly celebrating murder. murder is murder, no matter what the motives are.
it was necessary for the safety of others, but shouldn't be a proud moment.
rather, a shameful one that it had to come to this.

Neotyguy40 · May 05, 2011 9:48 PM

ontels wrote:

It's just respect for Human life. Don't hold the dead like a trophy lest you become a barbarian yourself.

Now there is a paradox. See, I support human life, which is WHY I'm glad he's gone for good.

Clock-la wrote:

Well your no better than him then.

So now I am as bad as a mass-murdering terrorist who killed thousands of people just because I'm happy the guy is gone? I think you are REALLY over exaggerating here. That is like comparing a man like Hitler to someone who simply "supports the death sentence" or some other radical argument. If you think someone can be compared to somebody like that, then I think you should take a social study class.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

celebrating that he's gone isn't tasteless, but celebrating that he's dead certainly is; how is it not tasteless to celebrate the loss of life? that's exactly what we hate the terrorists for, killing and then celebrating the deaths.

Exactly which is why I said I'm glad he is gone. Heck, if you they look at the quote you took from me specifically said "gone" not "dead". The problem is I believe the argument they are trying to make to me is that they don't think it's right to celebrate that someone is gone. However, gone or dead I don't think it matters. I feel it's both the same, so I will say it right here:

I am glad the leader of the worst terrorist and mass-murder groups in the world is dead.

The thing is, this quote:

prince-Dari wrote:

I agree, celebrating it is just tasteless.

Made me feel like their argument is just tossing out words. The reason I point out the word 'tasteless' is because I don't think it is an appropriate word to use whether or not someone says dead or gone. Tasteless in that form could either mean a lack of appreciation for a culture or literally somebody who doesn't like the taste of something. I think a better word should have been used here.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

aside from the motives of the murders themselves, when terrorists do it, it's all un-American, and unjustifiable evil and all that to celebrate that somebody died. it's like, why would you do that, we're sitting here mourning and you're all happy and etc etc etc. but when we do it, suddenly showing pride for our cause in such a manner is perfectly fine.
i'm certainly not justifying the terrorists, i hate what they've done and i'm glad we're taking the initiative to stop things like it in the future, but i just don't feel right stooping to their very level and shamelessly celebrating murder. murder is murder, no matter what the motives are.
it was necessary for the safety of others, but shouldn't be a proud moment.
rather, a shameful one that it had to come to this.

Murder is the intentional criminal killing of a person with malicious aforethought.

Niether was the killing of Osama malicious or criminal, but I can see where you are coming from. Now this seems like a philosophical issue, and while I only took two years of philosophy, it seems like you are the only one who actually took my entire post into account before responding. Everyone else seemed to just have a ground of "I'm right you're wrong. You're immoral. You shouldn't be happy." which is definitely not what someone should say in a philosophical debate. I'm just glad someone had more of an argument then just trying to insult me.

Latias fan · May 05, 2011 9:51 PM

Its amazing how this topic got derailed like this.

Neotyguy40 · May 05, 2011 9:53 PM

Latias fan wrote:

Its amazing how this topic got derailed like this.

It's not really derailed, we're on-topic. Just another part of the topic.

Swaffy · May 05, 2011 9:54 PM

Aceedwin wrote:

No, she didn't use an apostrophe.

Crap. I missed that. Well, you win.
Thanks for staying on-topic, ISLS.

Anyway, I say we should've tied that punk to a pole and poured fire ants
down his pants. Do you think that could have been a better choice, hmm?

ontels · May 05, 2011 9:58 PM

Swaffy wrote:

Aceedwin wrote:
No, she didn't use an apostrophe.
Crap. I missed that. Well, you win.
Thanks for staying on-topic, ISLS.
Anyway, I say we should've tied that punk to a pole and poured fire ants
down his pants. Do you think that could have been a better choice, hmm?

See this is what I'm talking about. Osama never tortured his victims.

Swaffy · May 05, 2011 10:05 PM

I say we should just "meh" at his death and move on.

I don't get why a loser like him [heheh, I said loser] should be more
important to us than our own financial crisis at our homeland. Sure, it's
nice that he's dead now so that his terrorist acts are stopped, but we
should get right back to working on our own issues.

prince-Dari · May 05, 2011 10:08 PM

I don't understand your comment, my use of "tasteless" was perfectly apt. It seems you don't know every definition of the word - here's one from Google "Considered to be lacking in aesthetic judgement or to offend against what is regarded as appropriate behaviour: 'a tasteless joke'".
Whether you're just glad he's gone, or that he's dead - I'm not bothered - I was just pointing out that I think that there's absolutely no reason to go parading about in the street because of it, I don't think that's right at all.

Neotyguy40 · May 05, 2011 10:53 PM

ontels wrote:

See this is what I'm talking about. Osama never tortured his victims.

Except on camera.

Have you ever seen those videos of the captured Americans half-beaten to death? How do you think they got that way?

Note: I in no way support Swaffeh's horrible fire ant torture that he suggests. That is the worst kind of torture EVAR :-P

prince-Dari wrote:

I don't understand your comment, my use of "tasteless" was perfectly apt. It seems you don't know every definition of the word - here's one from Google "Considered to be lacking in aesthetic judgement or to offend against what is regarded as appropriate behaviour: 'a tasteless joke'".

That was the first definition I thought of, however it is still incorrect in term. That definition is regarding aesthetic judgement or behavior. I'm going to go half-way here and disregard the aesthetic part just for argument's sake, however lets just reiterate that the fragment means and say that I offend appropriate behavior. This would make sense if it said my behavior was offensive. However, the term would be if I offended behavior itself. That would be a very large stretch to go by. Even if it was worded that way, I don't find Google definitions to be very accurate. Especially compared to Oxford or Daniel Webster dictionaries. However, while I do understand what you are trying to convey by the context you were trying to put it in, I do think a better word could have been used. Such as barbaric or inhuman.

I'm not going to be arguing about this further until I talk with my English professor tomorrow, but if you'd like to place your argument then by all means, I will be able to respond to it tomorrow.

prince-Dari wrote:

Whether you're just glad he's gone, or that he's dead - I'm not bothered - I was just pointing out that I think that there's absolutely no reason to go parading about in the street because of it, I don't think that's right at all.

Celebrating is a sign of pride. While I can't and wouldn't go "parading in the streets about it", I can see other people's reasoning for doing that. Many lost their friends and family through the war, 9/11, and other terrorist attacks and they have a right to feel that it wasn't for nothing.

The Jewish celebrated when Hitler died
The Russians celebrated when Stalin died.
Americans are celebrating that Osama is dead.

prince-Dari · May 05, 2011 11:15 PM

I maintain that "tasteless" is a much better word to use there than "barbaric" or "inhuman". Clearly you think differently, oh well.
"This would make sense if it said my behavior was offensive. However, the term would be if I offended behavior itself. "
It says "or to offend against what is regarded as appropriate behaviour", in other words an action that's deemed inappropriate (and possibly lacking in tact).
I think it's inappropriate - or in bad taste.
If you want to look it up in a dictionary fine, the Google definition is good enough for me. tongue
You said: "Celebrating is a sign of pride", so you're proud of the fact that people have been killed? As I said, I don't think that's right.
"The Jewish celebrated when Hitler died
The Russians celebrated when Stalin died.
Americans are celebrating that Osama is dead."
Just because other people are doing/did something, doesn't mean you should do it too, nor does it validate it.

Edit: I said that I think "tasteless" is better because I wouldn't use "barbaric" or "inhuman" to describe the situation, I think that's over the top. I just think that it's well...Tasteless.

Neotyguy40 · May 05, 2011 11:55 PM

prince-Dari wrote:

You said: "Celebrating is a sign of pride", so you're proud of the fact that people have been killed? As I said, I don't think that's right.

This is ridiculous, you know the meaning of what I say. Don't try to manipulate what I say by using out of context words. I shouldn't need to defend such a straightforward argument. I could easily say right back to you "So you're not proud of the fact that the most immoral mass-murderer since Hitler is gone?"

Seriously, I sure hope you were just being rhetorical when you said that, otherwise that is really sad. Read what I said, and then what your response was. I don't have time to reiterate what I say over and over for something so obvious.

prince-Dari wrote:

"The Jewish celebrated when Hitler died
The Russians celebrated when Stalin died.
Americans are celebrating that Osama is dead."
Just because other people are doing/did something, doesn't mean you should do it too, nor does it validate it.

See, this is the reasoning behind me saying anti-conformist. Many people tend to purposely deviate away from the attitudes and behavior of others just because "it's different". I'm not going to say you specifically, but just note that while you say it may not validate it, neither does your argument invalidate it. Besides, the reasoning behind this argument was that it is normal for people to be happy in these situations.

prince-Dari wrote:

Edit: I said that I think "tasteless" is better because I wouldn't use "barbaric" or "inhuman" to describe the situation, I think that's over the top. I just think that it's well...Tasteless.

Using Tasteless in that situation is not only tasteless, but also archaic and non-rhetoric.

prince-Dari · May 06, 2011 6:25 AM

"This is ridiculous, you know the meaning of what I say. Don't try to manipulate what I say by using out of context words. I shouldn't need to defend such a straightforward argument. I could easily say right back to you "So you're not proud of the fact that the most immoral mass-murderer since Hitler is gone?""
How? I wasn't celebrating when he was here. I was just pointing out that you support celebrating his death then told me that celebrating is a sign of pride. Does that not mean having pride in killing him?

"Many lost their friends and family through the war, 9/11, and other terrorist attacks and they have a right to feel that it wasn't for nothing."
Sure, I still don't see how that warrants public celebration.

"Besides, the reasoning behind this argument was that it is normal for people to be happy in these situations."
I didn't dispute that, earliter I said.

"Whether you're just glad he's gone, or that he's dead - I'm not bothered - I was just pointing out that I think that there's absolutely no reason to go parading about in the street because of it, I don't think that's right at all."
Happy I'm fine with, going out and publicly celebrating it, I'm not.

"Using Tasteless in that situation is not only tasteless, but also archaic and non-rhetoric."
Now I have no idea what you are talking about. I would not consider your use of tasteless there correct, I was just reiterating that I find "tasteless" the best word to use for the situation (celebrating death).
I also don't see how it is either archaic - most people use the word this way (other than to denote lacking taste) - or non-rhetoric. Maybe you should come and learn English in its homeland in England (I'm joking). tongue

ontels · May 06, 2011 5:55 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

ontels wrote:
See this is what I'm talking about. Osama never tortured his victims.
Except on camera.
Have you ever seen those videos of the captured Americans half-beaten to death? How do you think they got that way?
Note: I in no way support Swaffeh's horrible fire ant torture that he suggests. That is the worst kind of torture EVAR :-P

He did? Oh never mind then.

Jackson117 · May 07, 2011 1:31 AM

Prince I may have to ask your done nothing but give a hostile vibe to me and a few others mocking their intelligence and such.

Neotyguy40 · May 07, 2011 2:22 AM

prince-Dari wrote:

How? I wasn't celebrating when he was here. I was just pointing out that you support celebrating his death then told me that celebrating is a sign of pride. Does that not mean having pride in killing him?

I didn't kill him, so I am unable to have pride in that, however, let me say this again and remind you to take what I say word for word, not a flexible statement that you can attempt to manipulate:

I am happy and proud that the terrorist Osama Bin Laden, the mass-murderer of thousands of Americans, Europeans, and Muslims is finally gone.

prince-Dari wrote:

Sure, I still don't see how that warrants public celebration.

Because people who are happy express their happiness by celebrating. The warrant is in the feeling of relief and joy that the people who last family in the war get.

prince-Dari wrote:

I didn't dispute that, earliter I said.
"Whether you're just glad he's gone, or that he's dead - I'm not bothered - I was just pointing out that I think that there's absolutely no reason to go parading about in the street because of it, I don't think that's right at all."
Happy I'm fine with, going out and publicly celebrating it, I'm not.

And why not? You haven't explained your reasoning other than calling it "tasteless". Tell me what makes you think you know more about how the families should react and feel than people like me.

prince-Dari wrote:

Now I have no idea what you are talking about. I would not consider your use of tasteless there correct, I was just reiterating that I find "tasteless" the best word to use for the situation (celebrating death).

Celebrating the death of a mass-murder who killed tens of thousands of innocents.

prince-Dari wrote:

I also don't see how it is either archaic - most people use the word this way (other than to denote lacking taste) - or non-rhetoric. Maybe you should come and learn English in its homeland in England (I'm joking).

I said that because I talked to my english professor, and he said that using the word tasteless is not used in modern english to describe behavior. It is only used to describe opinions and ideas. Hence why I used the exact same term in the non-modern (archaic) form. I'll admit, you are technically grammatically correct when you use that, but if you attempt to use it in modern context, be known that many people will need to think for a moment what you are trying to say.

I love rhetorics. Communication, public speaking, debates, you name it. I love to pick conversations apart, take out the flaws, correct them, take out the flaws I made, and correct them again. I love reading between the lines and analyzing what people say without them saying it. Call it a habit of mine, but when someone refuses to use a more proper phrase, word, or argument? I think of it as a lack of enhancing effective communication between people; non-rhetoric.

And lastly, English did not originate in England. In fact, the word England came from the name of the language "Englisc." The language actually started in Germanic tribes way before Britannia was conquered.

Stormy · May 07, 2011 3:32 AM

Er, Neotyguy40....

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tasteless
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tasteless
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tasteless

Not only is your argument about the exact definition of the word "tasteless" irrelevant since I'm sure you know what he meant, it's also incorrect. Nowhere do any of those entries does it say the way in which prince-Dari used the word is "archaic," and he's definitely not the only person I've heard use the word that way. Your English teacher isn't the definitive authority on rhetoric, you know; you can do some research of your own to find this stuff out.

And even if it is outdated, again, you know full well what he meant, so what does it matter?

Now, pointless nitpicking aside, I can tell right now neither of you is going to convince the other. This is entirely based on opinions; none of you are bringing any relevant factual information to the debate (which is understandable, since there really isn't any that would make a difference to either side). So all you guys can really do is repeat back and forth, "You're wrong! He was evil and it's good that he's dead!" and "No, you're wrong! Celebrating a death is tasteless!" with some irrelevant attempts to correct the other person's grammar thrown in, of course. It'll never end until one of you gets sick of repeating yourself. Pointless, in other words.

Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with prince-Dari. Yes, bin Laden killed many people. He was an evil person. But I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of celebrating his death because he was still a person, no matter how evil he was. I do feel that it is tasteless to celebrate the death of any human being. I am happy that he can no longer murder people, of course, but I can't bring myself to celebrate a death.

Neotyguy40 · May 07, 2011 4:04 AM

Stormy wrote:

Er, Neotyguy40....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tasteless
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tasteless
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tasteless
Not only is your argument about the exact definition of the word "tasteless" irrelevant since I'm sure you know what he meant, it's also incorrect. Nowhere do any of those entries does it say the way in which prince-Dari used the word is "archaic," and he's definitely not the only person I've heard use the word that way. Your English teacher isn't the definitive authority on rhetoric, you know; you can do some research of your own to find this stuff out.
And even if it is outdated, again, you know full well what he meant, so what does it matter?

Fair enough.

Stormy wrote:

Now, pointless nitpicking aside, I can tell right now neither of you is going to convince the other. This is entirely based on opinions; none of you are bringing any relevant factual information to the debate (which is understandable, since there really isn't any that would make a difference to either side). So all you guys can really do is repeat back and forth, "You're wrong! He was evil and it's good that he's dead!" and "No, you're wrong! Celebrating a death is tasteless!" with some irrelevant attempts to correct the other person's grammar thrown in, of course. It'll never end until one of you gets sick of repeating yourself. Pointless, in other words.

You want something that hasn't been repeated? Fine:

My uncle died on the day 9/11/2001.
I don't think I have to say how it happened.

Stormy wrote:

Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with prince-Dari. Yes, bin Laden killed many people. He was an evil person. But I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of celebrating his death because he was still a person, no matter how evil he was. I do feel that it is tasteless to celebrate the death of any human being. I am happy that he can no longer murder people, of course, but I can't bring myself to celebrate a death.

My argument was that certain people have a right to celebrate the end of such an evil person. His argument was that we had no reason, along with insulting us by calling us 'tasteless'. Ergo, I was only defending my statement, not prosecuting his, and personally I don't need to see that thrown at me.

#51 May 05, 2011 2:37 AM

Re: Osama is Dead (Not a joke)

#52 May 05, 2011 9:09 AM

Re: Osama is Dead (Not a joke)

#53 May 05, 2011 3:56 PM

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#54 May 05, 2011 5:37 PM

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#55 May 05, 2011 5:39 PM

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#56 May 05, 2011 5:45 PM

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#57 May 05, 2011 7:28 PM

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#70 May 06, 2011 6:25 AM

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