Solving Unanswered Spyro Questions and Connecting TLOS to the Originals

JakBandiFan · Jan 01, 2010 1:14 PM

I don't know why, but every time I am in the mood for playing either ETD or AHT, I always play Enter the Dragonfly. Despite the long load times and glitchy framerate, that is.

And my review was actually for the first TLOS game. I guess I should have made it clearer. Fighting off hoards of monkeys was more difficult than fighting Gaenor in Morrowind (and even with cheating, he could still defeat you).

Surprisingly, TLOS is slammed not because of the changes. The reviewers actually praised the changes but they said that TLOS is exactly like the original Spyros, just in a different world. That is true, in a way but TLOS reminds me more of the PC game where you play as a knight and kill off anyone that stands in your way (I can't remember what it's called, though - I got up to the part where I had to try to get around the door with the "damaged" lock).

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 01, 2010 2:32 PM

Hey, you're from London like me! High-five!

What? It wasn't difficult at all. And TLoS is not the original Spyro in a different world. The original Spyro does not have a gary-stu personaltiy.

JakBandiFan · Jan 01, 2010 4:26 PM

I meant that it was difficult to maintain my interest sometimes. In the knight game I mentioned earlier, the game was really fun because the combat system was well programmed and tested thoroughly. I heard that Dawn of the Dragon has fixed this problem.

I know TLOS is not like the original Spyros. It's just the critics say that the objectives in the newer Spyro games are similar to the old Spyro games, in terms of platforming and level objectives. They also say that inspiration has been taken from God of War and Lord of the Rings. Here are where I think the aspects of the newer Spyros come from:

The platforming comes from Spyro AHT.

The different breaths idea first came from Check Six Studios (Enter the Dragonfly).

The fighting comes from...any sort of fighting game really (Morrowind comes to mind).

The atmosphere comes from Lord of the Rings and God of War (I only saw screenshots of God of War and I only saw snippets of Lord of the Rings).

The flying scenes come from Harry Potter's Quidditch (and one level from Rayman 2).

But that is not a valid excuse to slam a game. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore, isn't there? If I was a critic, I would only critisise the combat system and the sometimes sleeping actors\actresses. I would also give it an average rating of 8.2 out of 10.

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 01, 2010 6:17 PM

Razzek did say that TLoS is AHT/SL, but without the lighthearted humour. And she's got a point. I mean, they both have multiple breaths. And in SL Spyro learnt combat. They introduced the characters Red and Ember, who if merged together are like Cynder. Is it a coincidence that there are moles in both series? Or that Spyro mistook Elora for a goat and Sparx mistook Kane for a jackal?

But seriously...

Hunter: *bursts into room*

Spyro: What's up?!

Hunter: OMG ITS LIEK THE BEST IDEA EVAR!!!

Spyro: WHAT?!

Hunter: Ahem. *gets a poster of Lord of the Rings; slaps Spyro's face on it* Well?

(Also, that knight game sounds interesting. What's it called?)

JakBandiFan · Jan 01, 2010 6:29 PM

ratchet · Jan 02, 2010 4:51 AM

JakBandiFan · Jan 02, 2010 10:35 AM

I found out that the knight game is called "Prince of Persia: The Warrior Within".

And yes, the stories are cliche (the critics said it). But publishers actually listen to fans. Ever since Sonic the Hedgehog went 3D, there was a public outcry. Fans and critics did not like it one bit. What was worse, the Sonic Team could not master the next-gen technology and released a broken game, despite the fact that they were using the same type of engine every time (correct me if I'm wrong here). I do not know why critics hated Sonic Unleashed. No horrible load times there. There was an announcement that there will be a Sonic game with 2D platforming (what the fans wanted for 1 and a half generations) in 2010. But I want to see how the Sonic Team will manage to make the game.

I definitely hope that the extra time that the developers are taking with the next Spyro game will mean that the game would not be rushed and maybe Spyro would finally catch up with Crash Bandicoot and Rayman in the nearest future.

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 02, 2010 10:47 AM

That's what I've been telling everyone. Project Needlemouse, right? The critics liked Sonic Adventure (I like that too) and the daytime stages in Sonic Unleashed, but that was it, I think. I like Sonic in both 2D and 3D, since I was more in the 3D generation (though the only 3D Sonic game other than SA that I really like is Sonic & the Black Knight), but I really feel for fans who have been with Sonic through everything and watch in dismay what Sonic has turned into.

And this is how I feel with Spyro. Heck, I've got every single Spyro game except for Fusion and the ones on the mobile, and if I had to pay £1000 just to get him back to how he was I would. Some TLoS fans don't give a crap, or acknowledge the fact that without the originals they wouldn't have TLoS today.

I just wish the publishers would be clever and do what Sega's doing now. TLoS has average sales and reviews (apart from TEN which was BAAAAADDD) but the original trilogy got millions of copies sold.

JakBandiFan · Jan 02, 2010 1:17 PM

And Rayman's games now comes from his original cartoony roots. It was a change for the better (for the critics' sake, not the fans).

Maybe Activision will listen to fans. But as they totally screwed up on Tony Hawk Ride, maybe not.

Let's hope that Spyro will eventually recover. Crash Bandicoot recently had a mobile game which got mainly positive reviews. Rayman's latest game got good reviews (actually he wasn't there - only Raving Rabbids). And as I said, Sonic is appearing in Project Needlemouse.

Fingers crossed, everybody.

Jackson117 · Jan 03, 2010 9:21 AM

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 10:58 AM

If the combat system is well programmed, I won't mind fighting. But several times, I had to push the monkeys off the cliffs to save my energy and patience in TLOS.

The game Morrowind was critised for its blocky combat system. How was it blocky? It was well programmed from Level 1. So was its sequel Oblivion.

I personally don't like the fight-all-the-time routine. It is an action game, so more puzzles should be there. I think the developers should focus more on gameplay and less on cutscenes.

The Sonic Team made this mistake and they released a broken game in 2006. The cutscenes pushed the engine to its limits (it looked like something from Final Fantasy 13) but the game suffered from long load times, a dodgy camera, stupid scenarios and cliche characters like Chip. This proves SlyCopper's theory (from Youtube) that any company can make a bad game. The Sonic Team developed most of the games for Sonic but their last two games are critised as "sub-par".

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 11:49 AM

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 03, 2010 4:18 PM

Also, Chip was in Sonic Unleashed. Not '06. big_smile

I don't think the characters were Mary-Sue's or anything (all the hedgehogs in the game and Princess Elise aside). I just wish they'd made Blaze more of how she was in Sonic Rush. That game was goooood.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. I agree with you on the cutscenes thingy. If you ask me, people like TLoS because of the cutscenes and cliche story over the gameplay. Heck, if some guy remade Spyro the Dragon with cutscenes, a she-dragon and more better graphics then I bet everybody would be drooling over taht.

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 4:28 PM

I was impressed with the cutscenes from TLOS. I honestly thought that the gameplay would be just as good. Well, the first TLOS became only good at the start and near the end where you receive the Earth Breath (trust me, that ability was awesome). In my opinion.

They also mentioned the "Year of the Dragon" where Spyro 3 takes place. Isn't it a bit coincidental that on that specific year, dragon eggs were taken away by a villain (the Dark Master broke into the temple to take away the eggs and the Sorceress asked Bianca to steal dragon eggs also)?

ratchet · Jan 03, 2010 4:34 PM

JakBandifan, IMO, The crash world exists in a different temporal field, meaning time progresses differently there than in the spyro world. Crash could of also jumped in a time machine. Brio and Cortex have been inventing these kind of things for ages.

Anyway, im really sick of bashing TLOS. I have met alot of people that all they want to take about is bashing TLOS, and im sick of it. Because the fact is, the tlos dislikers will nearly always agree, the tlos likers will nearly always agree, and the tlos likers and dislikers will never agree.
And While the TLOS series might be a crap thing, it still has put spyro on life support for years, and brought many new people back into the fanbase. its also given me something to rant about, and also introduced new ideas into the spyro franchise.

This topic was about helping to revive the old spyro while using TLOS to its advantage, and having TLOS as a major role in the old spyro games. In fact, the end of DOTD explains exactly how the forgotton realms/ dragon realms came to be

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 4:51 PM

TLOS is incredibly flawed. I agree with you on that, ratchet. I also agree that TLOS helped Spyro to still survive. I am on the middle in the TLOS thing. It is not terrible but it's not great either.

Plus, TLOS proves that at the Year of the Dragon, there is always some guy that steals dragon eggs (thieves always did and so did the Sorceress). In ETD, there was a dragonfly named Cinder. And "Cinder" and "Ember" both are the same words meaning the remains of a fire.

I have a theory that the Dark Master gets totally defeated some point in the TLOS storyline, but he leaves behind minions like Gnasty Gnorc and Ripto in different parts of the world. And Spyro could have had a son with Cynder, who is also called Spyro. Does it sound valid, ratchet? My theory is nowhere as good as yours.

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 03, 2010 4:56 PM

'And While the TLOS series might be a crap thing, it still has put spyro on life support for years, and brought many new people back into the fanbase.'

(Sorry, guys, don't know how to quote.)

That's a bad thing, Ratchet.

Put it in life support for years? Look, sometimes it's better to just kill something off than drag it along, bleeding. Using Sonic as an example (because that's what we've been talking about), would you rather have had Sonic end at Sonic Heroes or have had all those games after that nobody really liked, like Sonic '06, Sonic Unleashed etc. I know what I would pick. They've done the same thing for Spyro.

Brought many new people back to the fanbase? Yeah, fangirls who *bleep* at you if you don't support Spyro x Cynder or like Ember and fanboys who drool over Cynder and say how 'sexy' she is. On the official Spyro forums (the VU ones) there used to be a board for every single Spyro game and, yes, there were arguments, but not half as many as you get on the new ones. If you don't believe me, ask Aura24. There's some guy on there who attacks you and says that you 'don't belong on the forum' and 'should leave' if you like original Spyro.

I think LoS had done more harm than good.

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 5:07 PM

I will always like the old ones, no matter what. But they better either make the fourth TLOS game worthwhile or it's back to the drawing board for them. I have a feeling that the extra year the developers are taking is for the better.

I want Bianca, Bartholomew, Elora, Sheila, Bentley and The Professor to come back. Sure, the Professor was a main character in AHT. But that is not enough. The developers are working with a license. It means they have the rights to absolutely all of the characters.

I heard rumours that Bianca and Moneybags might come back in the next Spyro game. Moneybags? That would actually cater for a non-cliche story for a change.

Scarlett-Fear-Dragon · Jan 03, 2010 7:32 PM

Bianca could fit in, definitely. She uses magic, right?

And I could see Elora in there. Fauns are the spirits of the woods.

I'm not sure about the others, though...

JakBandiFan · Jan 03, 2010 7:51 PM

Sheila and Bentley both live in the mountains. They could help Spyro and they could possibly be playable characters again (Bartholomew would be in Bentley's home as he is his sibling). Moneybags could be a great twist to the storyline as he could try to steal gems from a dragon village when he hears that the Dark Master is back. Or something.

The Professor would be an ordinary mole with a huge IQ. He might help Spyro by coming up with a clever plan to defeat the Dark Master.

Or maybe it will be a different villain. What do you think? Is my idea a bit over the top?

ratchet · Jan 04, 2010 3:47 AM

JakBandiFan · Jan 04, 2010 7:45 PM

ratchet, it is still possible for Activision to come back to the original Spyro games without ditching the TLOS games. You know what happened to Rayman? After Rayman 3, Ubisoft decided to put him in another series called Ravin' Rabbids.

Review scores did not suffer. But fans of the original adventure games said that the new series is too "kiddy" for them. In a recent interview, Ubisoft announced that it is possible to seperate the original and Ravin' Rabbids series. I think that this is a clever idea and if Activision does this with Spyro, they would receive more money than they do now.

It would even be better if two projects for Spyro would be worked on per year. That would mean that 2 Spyro games would be released on the same day. For example:

2010:

TLOS: The Wrath of the Dark Master
Spyro: Ripto's Return

I am not saying it is certain that this would happen, but it is better than just continuing on with the TLOS storyline and nothing else. Also, both fanbases would buy Spyro games again.

Question: If Rebecca & Gabriel will not compose the music for the next Spyro game, who will?

Aura24 · Jan 04, 2010 8:54 PM

I bet the new composer was assigned from Activision. How else would the staff of Activision take away the composers who did the music for the LoS trilogy, and then replace them with their own composer who is doing the music for a Spyro game for the first time?

JakBandiFan · Jan 04, 2010 8:58 PM

Anything but Spiralmouth is fine with me, Aura24. I do not like their music (they composed the music for Crash Twinsanity).

ratchet · Jan 05, 2010 7:30 AM

If Activision could do that, everyone would be happy wouldnt they. I Only hope they try something like that, but i dont think they think that Spyro is that great of a franchise

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