Rules that you live by.

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 3:20 PM

SpyroGirl101 wrote:

I know we're not really supposed to discuss religion on here, but if I get banned, it was for a good cause. Look guys, I know Christianity offends some people, but if you just listen to what God has to say, it will be the opposite of offensive. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, died on the cross for EVERYONE, Christian or not, so why would you fight against God when he has made the ultimate sacrifice for you? He has paid for every single sin ever commited by anyone. He had the love to bear all the pain for each of them, and if you'll only accept that and believe it in your heart, Jesus can live in your heart and you can have everlasting life and hop off a road that was destined for hell. It's such a simple and easy thing to do. Please take this into consideration guys. I'm telling you this because I don't want any of you to have to face hell and God deserves the glory.

Heard this message before, a million times. It's just propaganda.

SpyroGirl101 · Jun 11, 2010 3:24 PM

Apoc wrote:

SpyroGirl101 wrote:
I know we're not really supposed to discuss religion on here, but if I get banned, it was for a good cause. Look guys, I know Christianity offends some people, but if you just listen to what God has to say, it will be the opposite of offensive. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, died on the cross for EVERYONE, Christian or not, so why would you fight against God when he has made the ultimate sacrifice for you? He has paid for every single sin ever commited by anyone. He had the love to bear all the pain for each of them, and if you'll only accept that and believe it in your heart, Jesus can live in your heart and you can have everlasting life and hop off a road that was destined for hell. It's such a simple and easy thing to do. Please take this into consideration guys. I'm telling you this because I don't want any of you to have to face hell and God deserves the glory.
Heard this message before, a million times. It's just propaganda.

No, this message's purpose is to get souls saved. And what makes you think it's just propaganda?

Edit: You're right on one thing, it's not just a statement of some sort, it IS a message. A message from God that is.

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 3:26 PM

SpyroGirl101 wrote:

Apoc wrote:
SpyroGirl101 wrote:
I know we're not really supposed to discuss religion on here, but if I get banned, it was for a good cause. Look guys, I know Christianity offends some people, but if you just listen to what God has to say, it will be the opposite of offensive. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, died on the cross for EVERYONE, Christian or not, so why would you fight against God when he has made the ultimate sacrifice for you? He has paid for every single sin ever commited by anyone. He had the love to bear all the pain for each of them, and if you'll only accept that and believe it in your heart, Jesus can live in your heart and you can have everlasting life and hop off a road that was destined for hell. It's such a simple and easy thing to do. Please take this into consideration guys. I'm telling you this because I don't want any of you to have to face hell and God deserves the glory.
Heard this message before, a million times. It's just propaganda.
No, this message's purpose is to get souls saved. And what makes you think it's just propaganda?

It never saved my soul. Because it is preached just about everywhere I go. Quite frankly, I'd rather live in sin, if it allows me to think and live freely then no religion for me. Stop trying to convert me.

SpyroGirl101 · Jun 11, 2010 3:29 PM

Just reading it doesn't save you. You have to accept Jesus. I'm just trying to help you. sad

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 3:31 PM

The last time I got "help" I was denied all sense of freedom. I did and what did it do for me? Nothing.

Namba · Jun 11, 2010 5:39 PM

I'm very, very sorry you feel that way. What is freedom to you? I mean, how were you denied that?
By the way I hate religion as much as the next guy. Christianity is NOT a religion, just a way to live your life and a way to show other people you care, not to just preach at them. We may as well call denominations like Baptism, Methodism, and Catholicism what they really are: religions. Each religion thinks it knows better. Its no wonder people have such a screwed up view of Christians. We're such jerks to people about how they live their lives (I don't mean just telling them the truth, I mean being a certified d-bag), and are so divided amongst ourselves it's no wonder people don't want to listen. Of course, then those people are at fault, using the one person they talked to that happened to be a hypocrite as an excuse for being angry towards Christians (not that everybody does that, but those people do exist, no lie). It's like hearing one song from a band and saying that band is your favorite. Same as saying a certain group of people are jerks because of one person they talked to (then ignoring the people are go out of their way to be nice to you).

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 7:42 PM

Chryokinesis wrote:

I'm very, very sorry you feel that way. What is freedom to you? I mean, how were you denied that?
By the way I hate religion as much as the next guy. Christianity is NOT a religion, just a way to live your life and a way to show other people you care, not to just preach at them. We may as well call denominations like Baptism, Methodism, and Catholicism what they really are: religions. Each religion thinks it knows better. Its no wonder people have such a screwed up view of Christians. We're such jerks to people about how they live their lives (I don't mean just telling them the truth, I mean being a certified d-bag), and are so divided amongst ourselves it's no wonder people don't want to listen. Of course, then those people are at fault, using the one person they talked to that happened to be a hypocrite as an excuse for being angry towards Christians (not that everybody does that, but those people do exist, no lie). It's like hearing one song from a band and saying that band is your favorite. Same as saying a certain group of people are jerks because of one person they talked to (then ignoring the people are go out of their way to be nice to you).

Let me think, thou shalt not do this, thous shalt not do this. I can't listen to any sort of metal because according to Swaffy it's Satanic. Christianity is a theistic practice then, happy? But still I don't want to be part of any religion or theistic practice. As a friend of mine once said, believing in a God is primitive.

Namba · Jun 11, 2010 7:55 PM

Atheism is as old as Christianity.
Metal isn't satanic.
Not liking something because of rules is a childish mentality.

...and yes, saying it's a theistic practice does suit it a little better.
And if you have your mind made up, I'm not going to discuss this any further. I said all I needed to say and there's no point in beating a dead horse.

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 7:59 PM

Who said I was an atheist? All I said was I never wanted to be part of a religious or theistic practice.

That makes 3 people who believe that. Diary of Dreams satanic? Honestly.

Not if the rules conflict with the way you live.

Namba · Jun 11, 2010 8:02 PM

Apoc wrote:

Who said I was an atheist?

When you quoted your friend, it led me to believe that. My mistake. :-P

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 8:52 PM

Chryokinesis wrote:

Apoc wrote:
Who said I was an atheist?
When you quoted your friend, it led me to believe that. My mistake. :-P

I've never been one to hold a grudge

Namba · Jun 11, 2010 8:59 PM

Ditto.

Apoc · Jun 11, 2010 9:01 PM

Chryokinesis wrote:

Ditto.

Only as a joke though tongue

Namba · Jun 11, 2010 9:04 PM

Oh, yeah! I do that crap all the time!

Neotyguy40 · Jun 11, 2010 9:35 PM

SpyroGirl101 wrote:

I know we're not really supposed to discuss religion on here, but if I get banned, it was for a good cause. Look guys, I know Christianity offends some people, but if you just listen to what God has to say, it will be the opposite of offensive. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, died on the cross for EVERYONE, Christian or not, so why would you fight against God when he has made the ultimate sacrifice for you? He has paid for every single sin ever commited by anyone. He had the love to bear all the pain for each of them, and if you'll only accept that and believe it in your heart, Jesus can live in your heart and you can have everlasting life and hop off a road that was destined for hell. It's such a simple and easy thing to do. Please take this into consideration guys. I'm telling you this because I don't want any of you to have to face hell and God deserves the glory.

I know this was posted an entire page ago, but here's the thing... I am not "fighting" against God, Jesus, Muhammad, Satan, Zeus, or whatever deity people believe in. I just don't take a side in it because I don't believe in them. I've been holding off telling why I don't believe in them because I don't like contradicting any religion. But because you basically preached it as if it was factual, then I have no problem against my conscious to state my own facts.

I don't believe in any deity because there is so much contradicting evidence against it. The Bible says God created the Earth and all it's creatures in 7 days (or 6 days and a day of rest or something). Yet it's been proved that Earth was created by a proto-planetary disk formed by the gravity of the sun. And the Theory of Evolution (which is only a theory because creationists refuse to believe it) contradicts against the fact that all animals were created instantaneously by God.

Not to mention the old saying that goes against the idea of God:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Now here lies the problem. Theists are angry at Atheists because they feel we criticize God. Am I? No. I will not criticize God, or anything representing God. What I WILL criticize is the idea of God. We atheists and other nontheists will never see an end to the brutal bigotry leveled against us from every side unless theists become willing to stop lying about us. Which will obviously never happen seeing how it has not shown any slack against atheism.

I am open-minded, and I am willing to listen (preferably in a PM), but don't attempt to have a conversation with me about it until either of these things are said:

1. Show me that the object of the idea does, infact, exist in a way that us hundreds of thousands of atheists can agree to and think "Okay, I see that!".
2. Back up your conversation and admit that God is not an actual fact, but rather just an expression of an idea.

And if you could come up with a way for me to independently verify that what you say is true, then I would become your very next convert.

Namba · Jun 12, 2010 2:45 AM

Where does your sense of right and wrong come from then? If there's no God, there are no rules. Why should man rule over you? They're just people like you and me, and who the hell are they to tell us what's right and wrong?
We evolved from animals you say? Why are there any animals left, and why can't we find these "missing links"? Why can't we find a half-evolved reptile in the process of becoming a bird? And since when does an explosion actually create something? In my book, an explosion merely destroys things. An explosion has never made matter stick together. Sure, it's shifted things, it's even dispersed things, but never has it actually created something. Answer me this... where did the fireball that went "BANG" come from? How did that come into existence? Perhaps another explosion, and maybe one before that... maybe aliens? Wait, but then aliens would mean we'd have a creator, so that doesn't work out.

Second of all, God is a matter of faith. And just what idea is he an expression of?

Third, don't say you'll become a next convert, because you won't. You already seem to be dead set on what you believe, and will do anything to find fault in what I say. Sorry, but I also find fault in the things you believe in.
Believing there isn't a God? Well, that also requires faith.

If there is no God, I don't see how there are atheists. Atheism is merely denying the existence of someone far more powerful than you because you don't want to be held acountable for anything and think that you're the center of the universe. Why go out of your way denying something that doesn't exist? Why fight against a non-existent God?

Finally, know that the last thing I wanna do is be anybody's enemy just because of what one person believes and what another person believes. These arguments are important, but should never be escalated to the point where on person hates another person's guts because he doesn't believe the same. It's utterly childish.

SpyroDarkdude01 · Jun 12, 2010 3:08 AM

Why are there any animals left, and why can't we find these "missing links"?

There are missing links but not many people choose to believe them, such as Bigfoot and the Hillbilly Beast.

And since when does an explosion actually create something? In my book, an explosion merely destroys things. An explosion has never made matter stick together. Sure, it's shifted things, it's even dispersed things, but never has it actually created something. Answer me this... where did the fireball that went "BANG" come from? How did that come into existence? Perhaps another explosion, and maybe one before that... maybe aliens? Wait, but then aliens would mean we'd have a creator, so that doesn't work out.

The Big Bang was different type of explosion. Then what we come to think of in an explosion. Many people ignore that factor that it was more of an implosion, a fluxation over a clump of matter that thrived on the nothingness, it was a simple crack which most likely boomed powerfully and released this thriving matter or starnge atom or whatever into millions of different pieces thus becoming the matter, the atoms, the protons all of those we come to associate with the universe around us. So it was techincally an explosion but on a different scale.

I think I might stop there I might get lost in my own words.
I may be a Cryptozoologist but I know a thing or two about space and Cosmology.

But most people lose the bigger picture when it comes to discussions like these. There are thousands of other religions out there, millions possibly because in this day and age it is really easy to create your own religion and every one of these religions have a chance that they could be correct in some way or another, I'm talking about Rome, Greek, Jehova's Witness, Catholic, Jewish, Budhisim, Muslim, Hinduisim and even American Indian culture, too. Each one has an equal chance (Which has a 50/50 chance) of been correct.

I am not an athiest, I have a sence of whats good and bad. And also one reckons that since I am dead set on what I (And others) believe? I have an open mind to every religion, hell I might even join a satanic cult if they made sense about everything they were preaching.

There I made a humdinger of a point there.

Neotyguy40 · Jun 12, 2010 2:56 PM

Chryokinesis wrote:

Where does your sense of right and wrong come from then? If there's no God, there are no rules. Why should man rule over you? They're just people like you and me, and who the hell are they to tell us what's right and wrong?

Just because we don't believe in any religion doesn't mean we don't have a sense of right and wrong. One of the biggest prejudices against us is that we are evil.

Chryokinesis wrote:

We evolved from animals you say? Why are there any animals left, and why can't we find these "missing links"? Why can't we find a half-evolved reptile in the process of becoming a bird?

We can find them. They are just dead and in fossils and skeletons. Ever hear of the Velociraptor? Yea, it had feathers. And ever hear of a Neanderthal? There's your two missing links you wanted.

Chryokinesis wrote:

And since when does an explosion actually create something? In my book, an explosion merely destroys things. An explosion has never made matter stick together. Sure, it's shifted things, it's even dispersed things, but never has it actually created something. Answer me this... where did the fireball that went "BANG" come from? How did that come into existence? Perhaps another explosion, and maybe one before that... maybe aliens? Wait, but then aliens would mean we'd have a creator, so that doesn't work out.

I would just like to say that I don't believe in the Big Bang Theory, and I am more of a String Theory person. But you know what? Even though I believe in the String Theory, I wasn't so close-minded to just not research the Big Bang. I am not going to spell out what the Big Bang is completely, but I believe you could find that you are assuming the wrong things of the Big Bang, such as how the "Big Bang" was not an explosion.

Also, I was talking about how the solar system was created. Not the Universe. Because that is not the Big Bang theory.

Chryokinesis wrote:

Second of all, God is a matter of faith. And just what idea is he an expression of?

Never said he wasn't. And I never said he was an expression of any idea.

Chryokinesis wrote:

Third, don't say you'll become a next convert, because you won't. You already seem to be dead set on what you believe, and will do anything to find fault in what I say. Sorry, but I also find fault in the things you believe in.
Believing there isn't a God? Well, that also requires faith.

No, I am serious. I, and most likely every other atheist on Earth will become a Christian if one of the terms I said previously were fulfilled.

Chryokinesis wrote:

If there is no God, I don't see how there are atheists. Atheism is merely denying the existence of someone far more powerful than you because you don't want to be held acountable for anything and think that you're the center of the universe. Why go out of your way denying something that doesn't exist? Why fight against a non-existent God?

This is the exact kind of prejudice I am talking about. That "Brutal Bigotry" I said earlier is right there in that paragraph. Who are you to say why we don't believe in any deity? We all have different reasons for not believing in God. Some people don't believe because something so bad happened to them, that they lost their faith. Some believe that we have found too much evidence against the modern religions for there to be any. And since when do we think that we're the center of the universe? I have to admit, that is a new one. We also don't "go out of our way" to deny God. That is the exact kind of thing we are trying to avoid, which is going out of our way to do something which is logically useless. I think that this is very prejudice the way you think of atheists. That is like me saying that all Christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church. Which, I highly doubt, and really hope you are not.

Chryokinesis wrote:

Finally, know that the last thing I wanna do is be anybody's enemy just because of what one person believes and what another person believes. These arguments are important, but should never be escalated to the point where on person hates another person's guts because he doesn't believe the same. It's utterly childish.

Now when did I say I hate you? I do not, and will never hate someone because of what they believe or don't believe in.

Namba · Jun 12, 2010 5:12 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Chryokinesis wrote:
Where does your sense of right and wrong come from then? If there's no God, there are no rules. Why should man rule over you? They're just people like you and me, and who the hell are they to tell us what's right and wrong?
Just because we don't believe in any religion doesn't mean we don't have a sense of right and wrong. One of the biggest prejudices against us is that we are evil.
Chryokinesis wrote:
We evolved from animals you say? Why are there any animals left, and why can't we find these "missing links"? Why can't we find a half-evolved reptile in the process of becoming a bird?
We can find them. They are just dead and in fossils and skeletons. Ever hear of the Velociraptor? Yea, it had feathers. And ever hear of a Neanderthal? There's your two missing links you wanted.
Chryokinesis wrote:
And since when does an explosion actually create something? In my book, an explosion merely destroys things. An explosion has never made matter stick together. Sure, it's shifted things, it's even dispersed things, but never has it actually created something. Answer me this... where did the fireball that went "BANG" come from? How did that come into existence? Perhaps another explosion, and maybe one before that... maybe aliens? Wait, but then aliens would mean we'd have a creator, so that doesn't work out.
I would just like to say that I don't believe in the Big Bang Theory, and I am more of a String Theory person. But you know what? Even though I believe in the String Theory, I wasn't so close-minded to just not research the Big Bang. I am not going to spell out what the Big Bang is completely, but I believe you could find that you are assuming the wrong things of the Big Bang, such as how the "Big Bang" was not an explosion.
Also, I was talking about how the solar system was created. Not the Universe. Because that is not the Big Bang theory.
Chryokinesis wrote:
Second of all, God is a matter of faith. And just what idea is he an expression of?
Never said he wasn't. And I never said he was an expression of any idea.
Chryokinesis wrote:
Third, don't say you'll become a next convert, because you won't. You already seem to be dead set on what you believe, and will do anything to find fault in what I say. Sorry, but I also find fault in the things you believe in.
Believing there isn't a God? Well, that also requires faith.
No, I am serious. I, and most likely every other atheist on Earth will become a Christian if one of the terms I said previously were fulfilled.
Chryokinesis wrote:
If there is no God, I don't see how there are atheists. Atheism is merely denying the existence of someone far more powerful than you because you don't want to be held acountable for anything and think that you're the center of the universe. Why go out of your way denying something that doesn't exist? Why fight against a non-existent God?
This is the exact kind of prejudice I am talking about. That "Brutal Bigotry" I said earlier is right there in that paragraph. Who are you to say why we don't believe in any deity? We all have different reasons for not believing in God. Some people don't believe because something so bad happened to them, that they lost their faith. Some believe that we have found too much evidence against the modern religions for there to be any. And since when do we think that we're the center of the universe? I have to admit, that is a new one. We also don't "go out of our way" to deny God. That is the exact kind of thing we are trying to avoid, which is going out of our way to do something which is logically useless. I think that this is very prejudice the way you think of atheists. That is like me saying that all Christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church. Which, I highly doubt, and really hope you are not.
Chryokinesis wrote:
Finally, know that the last thing I wanna do is be anybody's enemy just because of what one person believes and what another person believes. These arguments are important, but should never be escalated to the point where on person hates another person's guts because he doesn't believe the same. It's utterly childish.
Now when did I say I hate you? I do not, and will never hate someone because of what they believe or don't believe in.

Explain your terms to me. I'd like to know what you're asking specifically. Also know I said that last thing because I think I did sound rather harsh, and people would take that the wrong way. I never said you hated me, did I? I said I didn't want that happening, and according to you, it won't. I'm just about ready to get off this subject, too. It seems as though no matter what I say or do, I have to have "solid proof" to convince you. That's not what the things I believe in are all about. Believe what you want to believe, but if you want me to believe in what you believe in, you're gonna have to do the same: give me undeniable proof. People can write whatever they want, people can take photographs and doctor them up, people can use their imaginations to draw a feathered lizard, people can make computer simulations. But things would still be in the process of evolving if evolution is the truth. Your beliefs are just as much based on speculation as mine. I'm pretty much done. lol Amazing how something can go from something as simple as "rules you live by" to "the origins of the universe".

Neotyguy40 · Jun 12, 2010 5:47 PM

Chryokinesis wrote:

Explain your terms to me. I'd like to know what you're asking specifically

One of these two things:

1. Show me that the object of the idea does, infact, exist in a way that us hundreds of thousands of atheists can agree to and think "Okay, I see that!".
2. Back up your argument and admit that God is not an actual fact, but rather just an expression of an idea.

That's not what the things I believe in are all about. Believe what you want to believe, but if you want me to believe in what you believe in, you're gonna have to do the same: give me undeniable proof. People can write whatever they want, people can take photographs and doctor them up, people can use their imaginations to draw a feathered lizard, people can make computer simulations.

It's good to be skeptical. That's what makes a good critical thinker. You have my respect now, but I think you may want to search "Velociraptor" on Google.

But things would still be in the process of evolving if evolution is the truth.

Umm... When did it stop?

Neotyguy40 · Jun 13, 2010 12:08 AM

SpyroGirl101 wrote:

You didn't?

No, I didn't. I am saying that IF he was just an expression of an idea, then I would become a theist.

bmah · Jun 13, 2010 8:37 AM

You cannot get a completely satisfactory answer from unfalsifiable claims, which is why you guys should save your breath.

Apoc · Jun 13, 2010 2:47 PM

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/nuogpBphW84&NR=1[/youtube]

Namba · Jun 13, 2010 8:36 PM

bmah wrote:

You cannot get a completely satisfactory answer from unfalsifiable claims, which is why you guys should save your breath.

Yeah, I s'pose you're right. Well, it's been fun (and I looked up the velociraptor, btw. I don't believe it had feathers, but kickass idea for a creature, nonetheless).

Starscream · Jun 13, 2010 8:52 PM

Why the *bleep* does every single god *bleep* thread on this forum has to turn into

ATHEISTS VS GOD

I'm an atheist and I don't give a rat's *bleep* if you believe in God, Buddha, Mohammed,Ra, Zeus, Svarog, Odin, Offler, Blid Io hell I don't care even if you worship Cthulhu but would you all just SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!! I'm sick an tired of going to every thread and seeing "God Exist! NO he doesn! Yes he does, no he doesn't! YES hE DOES! NO HE DOESN'T! SCREW YOU! NO SCREW YOU!SCREW YOU! SCREW YOU!" over and over and over again!

#51 Jun 11, 2010 3:20 PM

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#52 Jun 11, 2010 3:24 PM

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