Born again christian

RaidonMakoto · Sep 03, 2008 12:22 PM

Adam Thurman wrote:

Some of the stuff i read talked about how magic is real. I myself Think it is very real but not in the way everyone thinks. People think they can throw together a bunch of ingredients and call it a spell but it just sits there. Now let me get to my point. The occult often do things to worship Satan. I am easily confused what the difference is between the occult, devil worship, and the satanic church.

Yeah, no one actually worships the devil, you know. Only serious nutbags (read: Mental Disorders) who need help, and those people are far and few between.

Magic is real but it has to do with our feelings and is a very strong paranormal. We can be easily manipulated by our emotions. People do it every day. Lets say Satan is real and is able to manipulate us if we let him. Now what i am trying to get at here is that many people believe that Satan is not a bad devil that every one thinks. What do they do? They turn toward him and get taken over by him.

Again, there is no such thing as Devil Worship. Satanists don't believe in Satan. I think that if Satan were real, he'd be kind of a d*ck.

Or how about the belief in ghosts. No one can prove they are real neither can they prove they are not real. It is after a fifty fifty chance that they are real. There are people who let their body be open to them and then end up getting taken over by their own fault. What is it worth to give over your life to these ghosts and end up being controlled by them with no benefit for you. What do they have to offer you except pain and misery.

Ghosts also don't exist. tongue

God has the truth and we are free in him. We have the free will the whole time we are Christian and he leaves it up to us to either stay true to our belief or let our own feelings make our decisions for us. What is it worth to always give in to how you feel and end up doing something that can harm you?

For the most part, besides drugs, doing what feels good really can't harm you today. That, is unless you already are crazy and cutting yourself feels good.

Some one offers you a cigarette and the only way that you can feel accepted is that you take it and get high.

You know, cigarettes don't actually make you high. It screws with your serotonin levels.

Here is another instance your girlfriend or boy friend asks you to do something that would be enjoyable but in the end you get a disease. True there is nothing wrong with these feelings and it is also true that your feelings can lead you away from danger but they don't always work like that.

Dude, that's what we have condoms and abortions for, since I'm assuming you are afraid to type out the word "Sex."

You decide that you want to know what kissing your girlfriend would be like. You start kissing her and slowly you get taken over by the strong emotions in your heart. Further and further you go and then there is no turning back and you go all the way.

o_0

Kissing your girlfriend leads you astray from god? Now I know why I'm an atheist.

Is it not one of the rules to the church of Satan that you should let your feelings guide you instead of what is in your heart? What you know is right is not what you do. Instead you do things that make you feel better. You get into a fight after school and prove nothing other than the fact that your stronger than the other person.

And if you don't get in trouble, that's a win-win for me. big_smile

The argument that started all this has gone into a pointless activity that involves causing damage to the other person just because it makes you feel better to see them suffer. Are you not turning into your worst enemy? Fights break out all over school just because they did something to you that has hurt you emotionally. Let me ask you is this really how you want to live. Knife and other weapons are brought to school undetected until some one gets seriously injured.

You already need to be f*cked up to want to kill someone. And, again, but f*cked up, I mean mental disorders.

What life is it that you want to pursue your dreams but all you seem to do is let you emotions take you away from your accomplishments. Which would you rather have a great accomplishment that you worked hard on or let your feelings take you where you never wanted to be? This is where I got lost.

o_0

So, Christians are Jedi now?

Fletch_Talon · Sep 03, 2008 12:39 PM

raidon... dude... youre awesome

though the whole "ghosts dont exist" thing is a bit harsh, though it did make a somewhat valid point

A Guy · Sep 03, 2008 7:46 PM

Now THAT'S the Raidon I know.

Adam Thurman · Sep 03, 2008 9:39 PM

The reason that I don't like using the word sex is because it is just an example that I was trying to give for self control. Another reason is because I like to use descriptive words. I have nothing against kissing. It is what it can lead to. Personally I think kissing is a good way to express your emotions as long as it does not lead to the act of intimacy. Back to the main idea. A

Good questions;

[glow=orange:d858bdd28c]For those who are Christian;[/glow:d858bdd28c]
What makes it hard to share your faith?

[shadow=yellow:d858bdd28c]For those who have a different religion; [/shadow:d858bdd28c]
What is good about your religion?

Here is just an example;
Wiccans are really responsible for their actions or believe very strongly that they are responsible for what they cause.

RaidonMakoto · Sep 03, 2008 9:45 PM

Adam Thurman wrote:

The reason that I don't like using the word sex is because it is just an example that I was trying to give for self control. Another reason is because I like to use descriptive words. I have nothing against kissing. It is what it can lead to. Personally I think kissing is a good way to express your emotions as long as it does not lead to the act of intimacy.

Having a Boyfriend/Girlfriend leads to the act of intimacy. tongue

[glow=orange:8eba3c1b6b]For those who are Christian;[/glow:8eba3c1b6b]
What makes it hard to share your faith?

Because you're not supposed to, because people find it annoying. tongue

[shadow=yellow:8eba3c1b6b]For those who have a different religion; [/shadow:8eba3c1b6b]
What is good about your religion?

...or lack thereof?

See, I see religion like this. Unless its doing something good for me that I can confirm as being true, then I'm all for it. I don't join religion for perks, I would join a religion because I honestly believe in it. I am an atheist now because no religion has presented me with decent enough evidence to believe in it.

Here is just an example;
Wiccans are really responsible for their actions or believe very strongly that they are responsible for what they cause.

Dare I ask what that is supposed to mean?

A Guy · Sep 03, 2008 9:47 PM

Adam Thurman wrote:

[glow=orange:105eeddd1f]For those who are Christian;[/glow:105eeddd1f]
What makes it hard to share your faith?

Well, I don't share my faith because the people that aren't Christians most likely don't give a *bleep* about Christianity.

Paranoia · Sep 03, 2008 11:18 PM

That's the problem. The more you try to spread it, the worse things usually turn out. Take this forum as an example. If you try to share your religion with people and they don't care, they will think of you as a pest if you don't leave them alone. I mean, I wish I could spread the religion, but there seems to be no good way of going out and doing it. I think the best ways would be through Christian charity organizations, and things like that.

Spyrorocks · Sep 04, 2008 6:02 AM

Adam Thurman wrote:

Or how about the belief in ghosts. No one can prove they are real neither can they prove they are not real. It is after a fifty fifty chance that they are real. There are people who let their body be open to them and then end up getting taken over by their own fault. What is it worth to give over your life to these ghosts and end up being controlled by them with no benefit for you. What do they have to offer you except pain and misery.

"Holy Ghost"?

I prefer not to get involved in religious debates, although I personally am Christian myself. I don't really like the idea of "organized religion", though, because then it makes it easier for people to stereotype you and associate you with other people of the same "religion" that they have had bad experiences with in the past.

Some good books on sort of what I am talking about: The end of religion, Unchristian.

Pretty interesting actually.

Adam Thurman · Sep 04, 2008 11:16 PM

It seems like everyone has a good idea what it is like sharing their faith but how about staying true?

[glow=orange:57ddb66cab]Christian[/glow:57ddb66cab]
What seems to be the biggest reason why you keep your faith?
What is the hardest part to keeping your faith?

[glow=yellow:57ddb66cab]Other[/glow:57ddb66cab]
What are the reasons do you have that makes Christianity not for you?
Is there a specific reason why you feel strongly about this?

Example:
God makes it hard to be comfortable. If God is kind he would not send someone to hell for not believing in him simply because he does not seem to be real. God makes it uncomfortable to be me. If God was sympathetic he would accept us for who we are even if we had feelings for the same gender.

Now when i bring up the idea of going out with the same gender i am trying to point out that people believe that they are rejected for the way they feel and that is not true. I am not bringing it up to debate whether they are normal or not. It is an example. If you want to know what god thinks of it ask but don't ask it if it is right or wrong for that is up to you to decide in your heart. No one should think that what they believe is wrong but they should ask themselves how it effects them physically and emotionally.

Aicebo · Sep 05, 2008 12:26 AM

Adam Thurman wrote:

[glow=yellow:790893028d]Other[/glow:790893028d]
What are the reasons do you have that makes Christianity not for you?
Is there a specific reason why you feel strongly about this?

They don't accept gay/bi people, and that is one of my main reasons. I also think that there are too many "rules" to your religion, and it seems that alot of things I do are considered "sins". I simply don't believe in that religion, either. There are so many ways that life could have started. I personally have a theory that probably isn't correct, and alot of people won't like it or they might think it's "gross", so I won't repeat it here.

A Guy · Sep 05, 2008 12:30 AM

A lot of things everyone does are considered sins. According to the Bible, we are all sinners.

Kazoobie64 · Sep 05, 2008 12:37 AM

There are actually christians that believe the bible is all just man-made and nothing more or less. I've seen christian homosexuals. Then again, I'm not religious at all and am accepting of all beliefs, but I have no idea whether this is considered a real christian or not. I'm just going by what I've seen, and yes, I've read the bible.

bmah · Sep 05, 2008 12:55 AM

Adam Thurman wrote:

[glow=yellow:9fb58980ef]Other[/glow:9fb58980ef]
What are the reasons do you have that makes Christianity not for you?
Is there a specific reason why you feel strongly about this?

Since I wasn't born into a religious family, I've come to lean towards believing things on a factual basis rather than faith, as it turns out. I might not've even ended up having an interest in geological earth processes if I ended up as a Christian for example. And so I end up having the mindset of something like "if parents tell children that magic is fairy tale stuff, why are the stories that religions are based off of are any more believable?" etc. I can't really say much else, since science and religion can't ever tread on each other's waters. That being said, I don't know what society would be like without at least some religion.

Stormy · Sep 05, 2008 1:41 AM

Aicebo wrote:

Adam Thurman wrote:
[glow=yellow:01fc50abfc]Other[/glow:01fc50abfc]
What are the reasons do you have that makes Christianity not for you?
Is there a specific reason why you feel strongly about this?
They don't accept gay/bi people, and that is one of my main reasons.

[sub]We accept them. It's perfectly OK to be gay. The problem(in the eyes of the church) is when you act on it. But even then, if they actually follow the teachings of the religion, gays/lesbians/bisexuals are still accepted. Which doesn't always happen, I'll admit.

But anyway, yeah, some people just weren't brought up to believe in Christianity, or they don't agree with all of its views, and that's totally OK with me. [/sub]

Fletch_Talon · Sep 05, 2008 2:40 AM

Stormy wrote:

[sub]We accept them. It's perfectly OK to be gay. The problem(in the eyes of the church) is when you act on it. But even then, if they actually follow the teachings of the religion, gays/lesbians/bisexuals are still accepted. Which doesn't always happen, I'll admit.
[/sub]

wow, thats so much better

its ok to be gay if you want to, youre just never ever allowed to love someone, or feel emotionally and sexually fulfilled

homosexuality is not a choice
people are born homosexual
god supposedly created us
so god created us with the potential to be homosexual

and now he wants to punish people because they act on feelings they have because of the way he made them

this is why the christian faith as some practice it is *bleep*

when you follow rules that have no logic behind them other than "god told me so" then i question your intelligence or your sanity or both

also has anyone noticed that in a thread Adam started about religion, he certainly likes to pick and choose who he responds to... as in, anyone who questions anything he says is drowned out in another round of questions

not just me either, im aware i "dont deserve to be listened to" but Raidon and SR have questioned Adam, or commented on his points and yet he continues to ignore them as well

how very christian of you
(please note im well aware not all christians are into the habit of ignoring the other side of arguments of faith, it is however encouraged by the "we're right you're wrong" mentality)

Aicebo · Sep 05, 2008 3:59 AM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

wow, thats so much better
its ok to be gay if you want to, youre just never ever allowed to love someone, or feel emotionally and sexually fulfilled
homosexuality is not a choice
people are born homosexual
god supposedly created us
so god created us with the potential to be homosexual
and now he wants to punish people because they act on feelings they have because of the way he made them
this is why the christian faith as some practice it is *bleep*

So far I've agreed with all of Fletch's posts here, esepcially this bit.

You can't really say "Oh, I wanna be gay, I'll start now" you are kind of born with it. It makes me think. Would you rather have two people who hate eachother get married or would you rather have two people of the same gender love eachother? People should be allowed to love anyone, whatever sexuality they have. Now I have a question, too.

If "Jesus loves you" like I see on boards in front of churches alot, does that mean that this "Jesus" still loves gay/bi people, or does he hate them because of their sexuality?

Kat · Sep 05, 2008 4:23 AM

Jesus still loves homosexuals, but they, by being such, are sinning - He loves us all and wants us to go to heaven, but the latter ultimately lies in our hands through our willingness to follow His will. Faith can also mean sacrifice. Eternal life with God in heaven or mortal love and an infinite burning lake of fire? Love down here is deep, but God is our Creator and above all else.
Just because a homosexual was 'born' that way doesn't make it right. They still have the choice regardless of what people say, and if they never find in the opposite sex a "life-mate" then they may have to go through life on earth without mortal love - which pales in comparison to God's everlasting love, if you're simply willing to accept it.
Christians are not perfect. We sin too. The point of Salvation is repenting - regret/repent of your sins and choose NOT to sin anymore from then on. Sometimes they slip by without our noticing, like supposed "little white lies" (they're just as bad as the big ones ;P ) or snatching a small candy from a store without paying. They all count. If you sincerely ask for His forgiveness and make an effort to change, heaven still waits. You have to be sincere. You have to WANT God's love.

I know that sounded awfully preachy and probably made a lot of you cringe - the truth ain't always pretty. Being a Christian is hard. The bad thing about churches lately is that they only tell you 'God is a loving God, we'll all go to heaven if you just say this little prayer right here and then go back to living your life just like before and never lift a finger'. They're lying. Depending on how you're living right now, you might end up having to sacrifice much of what you loved and used to do.

But I say heaven's gonna be a wonderful place, and this short life is positively NOTHING compared to Eternity.
Where do you want to be when you die? I know where I DON'T.

(This is the first time I've stated my beliefs on a forum before. D: It's like flinging myself to the wolves! *Terror* I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm just... throwing this out here.)

Aicebo · Sep 05, 2008 6:09 AM

I see, so he loves them, yet he wants them to "burn in hell". Makes perfect sense. tongue

raven · Sep 05, 2008 6:53 AM

DDR_Maniac wrote:

That's the problem. The more you try to spread it, the worse things usually turn out. Take this forum as an example. If you try to share your religion with people and they don't care, they will think of you as a pest if you don't leave them alone. I mean, I wish I could spread the religion, but there seems to be no good way of going out and doing it. I think the best ways would be through Christian charity organizations, and things like that.

I think that by doing and saying nice things, taking a genuine interest in other people, and like you said, helping out through Christian charities, people would be more willing to listen to what you have to say. But you have a fair point.

Spyrorocks wrote:

I prefer not to get involved in religious debates, although I personally am Christian myself. I don't really like the idea of "organized religion", though, because then it makes it easier for people to stereotype you and associate you with other people of the same "religion" that they have had bad experiences with in the past.
Some good books on sort of what I am talking about: The end of religion, Unchristian.
Pretty interesting actually.

Do you mean you think Christians should worship God in their own way. by themselves and according to their own interpretations, rather than going to church and being active in Christianity's institutions?

Adam Thurman wrote:

[glow=yellow:d8db0c8f7f]Other[/glow:d8db0c8f7f]
What are the reasons do you have that makes Christianity not for you?
Is there a specific reason why you feel strongly about this?

To answer this quote, and to answer Adam's topic title of being a born again Christian, I 'tried out' Christianity a few years ago, but eventually decided I wasn't Christian.

I initially found it a good thing because of the friendliness and helpfulness of everyone in the church, and the fact that they taught good principles, lessons and values (such as the ten commandments, loving and forgiving etc) that are vital pillars to the smooth operation of society. Christians also do much good in the world on behalf of God, such as charity work, spreading love to those who live without love, caring where no-one else will care, etc.

But I never 'heard' or 'felt' God (whether that be my own fault or not), leaving me confused. I disagreed with the inferiority of women in the church compared to men (especially in prestigious positions like Pastors, and the fact that God is a 'Him'), and the homosexuality issue. Also, there seems to be too much injustice in the world (*bleep*, corruption, war etc). Why does this occur? This world may not be heaven, but couldn't it be a little better? If there is a God, why does He let such suffering go unabated, until we die and all go to either Heaven/Hell? My final point would be that indigenous people like Australian Aborigines never had access to information about God. Why?

I accept, and am happy, that other people may follow a religion, I'm just not religious myself. I don't intend to challenge anyone else's religion, just merely state why I am how I am. I also understand that there may not be any straight or easy answers to these questions, except how one may personally interpret the Bible to mean, for themselves. And even though I'm not Christian, I try and follow a lot of Christianity's (and that of some other religions) principles anyway, just because they're pretty good ones.

That's my two cents anyway. I'll understand if people disagree.

Kat wrote:

Jesus still loves homosexuals, but they, by being such, are sinning - He loves us all and wants us to go to heaven, but the latter ultimately lies in our hands through our willingness to follow His will. Faith can also mean sacrifice. Eternal life with God in heaven or mortal love and an infinite burning lake of fire? Love down here is deep, but God is our Creator and above all else.
Just because a homosexual was 'born' that way doesn't make it right. They still have the choice regardless of what people say, and if they never find in the opposite sex a "life-mate" then they may have to go through life on earth without mortal love - which pales in comparison to God's everlasting love, if you're simply willing to accept it.
Christians are not perfect. We sin too. The point of Salvation is repenting - regret/repent of your sins and choose NOT to sin anymore from then on. Sometimes they slip by without our noticing, like supposed "little white lies" (they're just as bad as the big ones ;P ) or snatching a small candy from a store without paying. They all count. If you sincerely ask for His forgiveness and make an effort to change, heaven still waits. You have to be sincere. You have to WANT God's love.

Good points, and you've helped in the understanding of some questions. But I've never understood why God sees Homosexuality itself as a sin. But then, there probably is no answer to this question that anyone other than God Himself know of.

Spyrorocks · Sep 05, 2008 7:57 AM

I have a saying... in the beginning God did not create Adam and Steve, but I doubt he would reject people because of their sexual orientation.

Fletch_Talon · Sep 05, 2008 8:34 AM

Kat wrote:

Jesus still loves homosexuals, but they, by being such, are sinning - He loves us all and wants us to go to heaven, but the latter ultimately lies in our hands through our willingness to follow His will. Faith can also mean sacrifice. Eternal life with God in heaven or mortal love and an infinite burning lake of fire? Love down here is deep, but God is our Creator and above all else.
Just because a homosexual was 'born' that way doesn't make it right. They still have the choice regardless of what people say, and if they never find in the opposite sex a "life-mate" then they may have to go through life on earth without mortal love - which pales in comparison to God's everlasting love, if you're simply willing to accept it.

id like to thank you for voicing your opinion no matter how contraversial, but its just so ignorant that the world would be a better place without people like you

i try to keep away from the belief that christian = bad but comments like this just make it too hard

*bleep*ing bigot

EDIT
im sorry, i shouldnt be so angry at you, its not your fault you were raised to be scared of thinking for yourself, i woudlnt want to face the eternal flames of hell either, but then im of the opinion any god that exists is not going to be a petty egotistical hypocrite who likes to *bleep* with people, and expects them to take it because he created us

raven · Sep 05, 2008 9:32 AM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

Kat wrote:
Jesus still loves homosexuals, but they, by being such, are sinning - He loves us all and wants us to go to heaven, but the latter ultimately lies in our hands through our willingness to follow His will. Faith can also mean sacrifice. Eternal life with God in heaven or mortal love and an infinite burning lake of fire? Love down here is deep, but God is our Creator and above all else.
Just because a homosexual was 'born' that way doesn't make it right. They still have the choice regardless of what people say, and if they never find in the opposite sex a "life-mate" then they may have to go through life on earth without mortal love - which pales in comparison to God's everlasting love, if you're simply willing to accept it.
id like to thank you for voicing your opinion no matter how contraversial, but its just so ignorant that the world would be a better place without people like you
i try to keep away from the belief that christian = bad but comments like this just make it too hard
*bleep* bigot
EDIT
im sorry, i shouldnt be so angry at you, its not your fault you were raised to be scared of thinking for yourself, i woudlnt want to face the eternal flames of hell either, but then im of the opinion any god that exists is not going to be a petty egotistical hypocrite who likes to *bleep* with people, and expects them to take it because he created us

That seems a little harsh...

Fletch_Talon · Sep 05, 2008 11:27 AM

raven wrote:

Fletch_Talon wrote:
Kat wrote:
Jesus still loves homosexuals, but they, by being such, are sinning - He loves us all and wants us to go to heaven, but the latter ultimately lies in our hands through our willingness to follow His will. Faith can also mean sacrifice. Eternal life with God in heaven or mortal love and an infinite burning lake of fire? Love down here is deep, but God is our Creator and above all else.
Just because a homosexual was 'born' that way doesn't make it right. They still have the choice regardless of what people say, and if they never find in the opposite sex a "life-mate" then they may have to go through life on earth without mortal love - which pales in comparison to God's everlasting love, if you're simply willing to accept it.
id like to thank you for voicing your opinion no matter how contraversial, but its just so ignorant that the world would be a better place without people like you
i try to keep away from the belief that christian = bad but comments like this just make it too hard
*bleep* bigot
EDIT
im sorry, i shouldnt be so angry at you, its not your fault you were raised to be scared of thinking for yourself, i woudlnt want to face the eternal flames of hell either, but then im of the opinion any god that exists is not going to be a petty egotistical hypocrite who likes to *bleep* with people, and expects them to take it because he created us
That seems a little harsh...

what would we think if christianity said that being black was wrong

oh nonono you misunderstand, obviously youre born black, but you have a choice not to act on it, just make sure you act like all the white people and then god will still love you, otherwise youre going to hell

why the *bleep* shouldnt it be harsh, we wouldnt accept a belief that was racist, why should we accept this one just because the "trait" in question isnt physically there, its based on the brain and hormones and stuff like that

or how about we have a religion where if youre born a woman, you have to act masculine, because being a woman is wrong, and you wont get into heaven if youre a woman

its all prejudice, ignorance and bigotry, im all for people having beliefs, but your beliefs promote prejudice you're the one that deserves to go to hell

Kazoobie64 · Sep 05, 2008 3:03 PM

Fletch, unfortunately we can't really change the way people think. If they think like that, it's perfectly harmless, as long as they're not going out and doing bad things to homosexuals, and treat them like normal people. My friends and I used to have a friend in our group that was a really conservative christian. We had around 3 homosexuals in our group, and she, regardless of how nice she treated them, always believed they were going to go to hell. Heck, she probably thought the straight ones were going to hell too because we didn't attend church to forgive our sins, but I wouldn't know about that. It was an unfortunate opinion of hers, but it's not like she treated them like crap or stayed away from them, she treated them like perfectly normal people and never forced her beliefs on them.

Though I will say that I'd rather trust in human studies and psychology and say gay people can't just NOT be gay. It's impossible, no matter what you may think. Even if they go to church and get help on becoming attracted to women, what they plant in his or her head is in another part of the brain, and in the core he or she will always still be gay and be living a lie with the opposite sex.

Kat · Sep 05, 2008 4:55 PM

Fletch, we'll have to agree to disagree. smile
I'm still a human that is perfectly capable of thinking for herself. By the way, one of my friends is a homosexual - just because someone doesn't believe what I do, doesn't mean I'm going to throw knives at their faces... verbally or physically.
There is a kinder, more civil way of 'debating', and it's not calling my beliefs ignorant or saying the world would be a better place without 'people like me'. I'm not mad at you or anything, just kind of put-out because now I remembered why I don't state my beliefs anywhere. I'm not trying to force them on anyone here, either, just exercising my freedom of speech. Er, post.

It's kind of unfair that some aethiests can rant and rave and put down my God all they want, but when I want to raise Him up a little they try to lay the smackdown on me. Oh well.
It takes far more strength to be a Christian than anything else in the world. Think about it. XD

Also, to say one last thing, God created male and female - to be together. Males and males can't have children, and females and females can't without artificial help - it isn't natural, which is why it's sin. I'm not trying to convert you guys, as I said earlier. I'm trying to help explain a couple things about Christianity, but by no means am I physically shoving it down your throats and screaming "CONVERT CONVERT CONVERT".
That would be a funny image.

Anywho, I'm not going to argue anymore. You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. Please don't react so harshly to me in the future, Fletch, as I've never done anything to you but defend my God.

Of course, I can always stone you and shriek "SLAY THE NONBELIEVER" just for kicks... XD

Okay, to say a second last thing. I appreciate your post Kazoobie, because rather than saying I'm an idiot you're simply stating what you feel. I love polite people. T_T

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