Pokemon

Zekira Drake · Jul 12, 2008 11:27 AM

OK, before I start this insanely long post, I'd like to ask if anyone knows where to get a download link to a WORKING copy of Type: Wild, a game that PokÃ©Sho made... and the latest version! I just wanna experience it for myself... the one I downloaded isn't working, and the one that I got that WAS working was totally outdated and didn't have Gardevoir in it! T_T

A Guy wrote:

Uh, I think that if Double Team wasn't meant to be used, it wouldn't have been created. An opponent that doesn't know how to counter it must not be very skilled.

I'd plant that same statement against you... but this time, on OHKO moves. Wouldn't it be 'unfair' if the OHKO moves were used... only because they were made in the game? tongue

i personally think that all the competition surrounding pokemon has more or less ruined it, people reset their games if they can't find a legendary with a nature that is just right, people sit down and work out those EV values or whatever theyre called, instead of just levelling up normally, all of a sudden you have to be very careful about what pokemon you fight and stuff
and because of all this kind of stuff i can imagine a large number of pokemon are being completely ignored because they have no use in competitive battling
instead of being a case of "train your pokemon to be the best it can be and test it against someone else" its become a case of "get this pokemon, level it against these pokemon, teach it these moves, woop everyones butt who doesnt treat levelling like a mathematical equation"
its the same now in World of Warcraft to an extent, most places you go to will say "this is how you should set up your talents, anything else is just stupid, and this is the armour and weapons you should have, anything else is just stupid" so by the end of the game, i forsee a bunch of characters who (within the same class and race) look nearly identical
yes part of the reason all this annoys me is because i lack the enthusiasm to put so much effort into a game, but thats because i see it as being a game, not a car race (in my opinion all the cars in the race look about the same, the only difference is the driver)

I'm sorry to say, but that is the case with competitive PokÃ©mon battling. The other PokÃ©mon are left to serve as fanservice... or to be used competitively in the UU/BL tiers.

No seriously, I used UU/BLs in OU matches, and I still win.

The main difference why this distinction is so is because of the base stats that a PokÃ©mon can have, which then will conclude that some are used better for competitive play than others.

But seriously though, all PokÃ©mon have their own equality points. How? We'll take a comparison... a very far comparison... but I will prove that they all have their same points... which then means that not all PokÃ©mon are left out.

We will compare... Delcatty, Salamence, and Trapinch.

Salamence
-Pseudo-legendary stats
-Intimidate Ability
-Moveset of the most powerful physical movesets
-Gets Draco Meteor, and thus can do the infamous Draco Meteor-Specs strategy.

Delcatty
-Gets Assist, which could mean a lot in the game... *hey wait a minute, this simply means "Assisthax" lol! I didn't notice!*
-Wide range of Special moves with a decent-accuracy sleeping move
-Best used in Cute (Diamond/Pearl) contests -- a maxed out Cute Delcatty gets 5 hearts in the Master Rank without any accessories
-Is compatible with a lot of Cute and Beauty moves for Contests
-A fearsome competitor in the UU matches because of...
-Normalize. It would then turn every attack into STAB...
-And also be able to Thunder Wave Dugtrio! *lol this is my LOLing point in the OU tier... I Thunder Waved a Dugtrio and my opponent called me a hacker hahahaha*
-Boltbeam for the Special Attacking Delcatty, which then remove Normalize and put Cute Charm instead.

Trapinch
-100 Attack. Highest base attack for an NFE, don't you think?
-Egg moves Quick Attack. Goes nicely with...
-Arena Trap. This could even put Dugtrio in a lower level then Trapinch lol.
-Insanely slow. With Trick Room support, Trapinch can actually do something...
-...especially if said Trapinch has Choice Band to top it all off!
-Gets Earthquake despite it's NFE-ness.
-One of the two NFE PokÃ©mon that can make a mark in OU tier, the other being Pikachu.
-Arena Trap, Toxic, and slow speed make it the perfect counter to the super-uber Wobbuffet.
-Not to mention that Toxic is a given to Trapinch, since Duggy doesn't need Toxic, and thus Trapinch fits better for that position.

I need not elaborate more. Take a PokÃ©mon for different perspectives if you must, but I say that fandom is one-half of the PokÃ©mon world, and one-half is the competitive battling one, so I have no doubts...

...except that...

Some PokÃ©mon actually dominated both of those aspects... an example would be Lucario. Lucario was famous in the fandom sector, you know, being a very cool anthromorph and all (even making a big record in the yiff world), and even so, he was also made a strong competitor in the comeptitive-battling aspect... insane Attack and Sp. Atk OMG. Also, Lucario qualifies for 5 hearts if maxed in Toughness in contest. How cool can that get?

Well, disappointingly enough, distinction is what affects the world of competitive battling. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the others. Hell, I even memorized the first 251 PokÃ©mon in the PokÃ©dex and could classify them all according to their specific uses.

See... I may be losing my Game Conqueror touch because I've been leaning towards the fandom part of games lately... but that's what makes me unique now. Since I have gaming experience, with fandom on the sideline, I can do a lot of things to a game... PokÃ©mon is no exception -- I haven't heard of someone being a competitor that is simoltaneously a coordinator also... *AlthoughI'mStillHavingProblemsWithTheCoolContestThough>_>* ...and thus I look at PokÃ©mon in every way I could.

So it's not that I side entirely with the competitive-battling aspect... it's just that I'm mentioning that nothing is to be criticized about it. How games were made will be the way they should be, and that statement does not merely apply to the competitive nature, mind you. How it goes is how it goes.

pur · Jul 12, 2008 1:52 PM

Zekira Drake wrote:

OK, before I start this insanely long post, I'd like to ask if anyone knows where to get a download link to a WORKING copy of Type: Wild, a game that PokÃ©Sho made... and the latest version! I just wanna experience it for myself... the one I downloaded isn't working, and the one that I got that WAS working was totally outdated and didn't have Gardevoir in it! T_T

You mean this thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izNSExKaIOM

DarkMaster · Jul 12, 2008 9:05 PM

you guys this is like a who likes pokemon thing not like a "how accurate is roar, its 100% accurate not a sure-shot move you have to make sure a move has 225% accuracy and then its a sure-shot move" this is a "who here likes pokemon" thing ok???

Stormy · Jul 12, 2008 9:56 PM

DarkMaster wrote:

you guys this is like a who likes pokemon thing not like a "how accurate is roar, its 100% accurate not a sure-shot move you have to make sure a move has 225% accuracy and then its a sure-shot move" this is a "who here likes pokemon" thing ok???

[sub]Geez, no one said we couldn't discuss strategy.... There wouldn't be much point to the thread if all it was was people posting, "I like Pokemon!" "Me too!" "OMG LOLZ!"

Anyway:

[/sub]

I'd plant that same statement against you... but this time, on OHKO moves. Wouldn't it be 'unfair' if the OHKO moves were used... only because they were made in the game?

[sub]I think any move should be fair to use if it's made in the game. What's the point of having them, otherwise? [/sub]

A Guy · Jul 12, 2008 9:59 PM

Zekira Drake wrote:

A Guy wrote:
Uh, I think that if Double Team wasn't meant to be used, it wouldn't have been created. An opponent that doesn't know how to counter it must not be very skilled.
I'd plant that same statement against you... but this time, on OHKO moves. Wouldn't it be 'unfair' if the OHKO moves were used... only because they were made in the game?

I would consider that completely fair.

dragon protector x · Jul 13, 2008 5:07 AM

XD my sister got a GBA game shark....and is useing it on pokemon games...she want to know the cheat for 99 master balls....

Stormy · Jul 13, 2008 3:26 PM

[sub]Now that would be cheating.

I suppose I can't really talk, though, as I've made use of that Emerald cloning glitch to clone Masterballs a few times. I'd never use it for Rare Candy, though. *cough*[/sub]

John Man 1234 · Jul 13, 2008 4:53 PM

Unless you have to really have to get a really hard legendary pokemon like Darkrai or Arceus people do cheat some times tisk tisk.

A Guy · Jul 13, 2008 6:46 PM

I think a cheating device is ONLY okay to use to catch event Pokemon, and even then, only if...

-You couldn't go to the event (some people have better things to do with their lives, or they bought the game after the event)
-You have to catch it fair and square.
-You don't have Wi-Fi, so you can't trade for it.

Nova147 · Jul 13, 2008 9:58 PM

Haider!I have a few games and cards.

GAMES
1.firered
2.leafgreen
3.emerald
4.diamond
5.red rescue team

But Ldont really like them anymore.I found them to be pointless.(plus some kid at my camp stole all my awsome cards!!)So Im selling all my games and cards to get other things.Not sure what those "other things"are yet.

Byz!

spyros#1fan · Jul 14, 2008 3:11 PM

i have pok'emon colusium. and gameboy color pokemon gold version. my favorite pokemon is Riachu as you may see by mwa banner. big_smile

Winged Beast · Jul 14, 2008 4:10 PM

I used a cheat code to catch a shiny Mew once. Whats the chance of getting one if you don't?

A Guy · Jul 14, 2008 4:14 PM

About 1/8192 each time you encounter a Pokemon.

Hail The Ice Dragon · Jul 14, 2008 4:32 PM

Zekira Drake wrote:

MaybeYouCouldPutSpacesNextTimeLol

MaybeICould....NahMwahaha

Hail The Ice Dragon · Jul 14, 2008 4:34 PM

By the way Pokemon battle rev. rulesi have it for wii!

Zekira Drake · Jul 15, 2008 1:35 PM

Gah! I.WANT.PBR.NOW! But first I need a Wii >_>

Using OHKO moves in a PokÃ©mon game is fair, yes, but absolutely not in a formal battle. Usually, we only apply hax if we're having fun. But OHKOhax is the gayest hax to ever exist in the face of PokÃ©mon battling lolz.

I wonder though, it would then totally ruin the Articuno set-up, which technically isn't hax, if OHKO moves were completely removed. If there was a certain mod for Shoddy, the Mind Reader-Sheer Cold set would still be viable? Heh. Smeargle and Articuno FTW...

It was for the reason that competitive battling was revolved around strategy and not through hax lolz. Gayhax could mean a lot >_>

If you want an OHKOer set, though, here's what I made:

Walrein
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd
Nature: Any +Spd that is -Sp. Atk or -Atk
Item: Wide Lens
-Sheer Cold
-Fissure
-Rest
-Ice Beam/Earthquake/Surf/Sleep Talk

I used the SheerCold-Fissure-Rest-ST set back in Netbattle (3rd gen), but it kind of proved irritating seeing that I'm OHKOing stuff with no effort at all. When someone found out I was using Quick Claw, I was immediately banned from the tourney... gah, but it was just a friggin' Trapinch, give the NFE some compensation! T_T Seriously, I have no idea why, but Trapinch has a lot more survivability than Dugtrio does -- Trapinch can survive Tyranitar's unboosted max Atk Earthquake, as Duggy can't...

My team is composed of novelty sets that always surprises a lot of people -- anyone heard of a Jolteon OHKOing a Spiritomb without a critical? tongue Or the Kingdra that sweeps six PokÃ©mon in 10 turns? How about a Gyarados who gets OHKOed by a Swampert that does not have HP-Electric?

I have doubts on my Shaymin build, though. I think I'd replace Psychic with Leech Seed instead... but then again, Choice-users don't use hazing moves...

A Guy · Jul 15, 2008 1:39 PM

Zekira Drake wrote:

Gah! I.WANT.PBR.NOW! But first I need a Wii >_>
Using OHKO moves in a PokÃ©mon game is fair, yes, but absolutely not in a formal battle. Usually, we only apply hax if we're having fun. But OHKOhax is the gayest hax to ever exist in the face of PokÃ©mon battling lolz.
I wonder though, it would then totally ruin the Articuno set-up, which technically isn't hax, if OHKO moves were completely removed. If there was a certain mod for Shoddy, the Mind Reader-Sheer Cold set would still be viable? Heh. Smeargle and Articuno FTW...
It was for the reason that competitive battling was revolved around strategy and not through hax lolz. Gayhax could mean a lot >_>
If you want an OHKOer set, though, here's what I made:
Walrein
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd
Nature: Any +Spd that is -Sp. Atk or -Atk
Item: Wide Lens
-Sheer Cold
-Fissure
-Rest
-Ice Beam/Earthquake/Surf/Sleep Talk
I used the SheerCold-Fissure-Rest-ST set back in Netbattle (3rd gen), but it kind of proved irritating seeing that I'm OHKOing stuff with no effort at all. When someone found out I was using Quick Claw, I was immediately banned from the tourney... gah, but it was just a friggin' Trapinch, give the NFE some compensation! T_T Seriously, I have no idea why, but Trapinch has a lot more survivability than Dugtrio does -- Trapinch can survive Tyranitar's unboosted max Atk Earthquake, as Duggy can't...
My team is composed of novelty sets that always surprises a lot of people -- anyone heard of a Jolteon OHKOing a Spiritomb without a critical? Or the Kingdra that sweeps six PokÃ©mon in 10 turns? How about a Gyarados who gets OHKOed by a Swampert that does not have HP-Electric?
I have doubts on my Shaymin build, though. I think I'd replace Psychic with Leech Seed instead... but then again, Choice-users don't use hazing moves...

If someone wants to rely on the chance that a OHKO attack will land, let them. They're taking a huge risk, considering the low accuracy of OHKO attacks.

Just because people don't WANT to put counters to hax in their teams, that doesn't mean that hax should be banned.

By the way, will Focus Sash work if the Pokemon is hit by a OHKO attack?

Zekira Drake · Jul 15, 2008 1:57 PM

Here's the problem though -- Substitute ruins everything that OHKO moves have to offer. That, is then, one of the most used counters to OHKOs... and even so, because Substitute is a very good move.

Focus Sash activates at an OHKO move, yes.

So, let me tell you this, though -- assuming you're still at the verge of 'it's in the game', are you saying that Wobbuffet shouldn't be banned from competitive play, though? Even in ubers, Wobbuffet is restricted -- not because of hax, though. You know what's the case with Wobbuffet.

Universally, I have a counter to all kinds of hax except the uncounterable Quick Claw hax. Also, no PokÃ©mon in the OU tier can counter Confusehax, not even BL! In UU, Confusehax is kind of ruined since a lot of PokÃ©mon get Own Tempo. I can also even counter Wobbu-gay with my Trapinch.

But no seriously, the only hax I really use now is Assisthax. I still remember sweeping an entire OU team with Delcatty -- take that Metagross lol, KOing a Deoxys-Emerald along the way, too.[/color]

A Guy · Jul 15, 2008 3:25 PM

Zekira Drake wrote:

So, let me tell you this, though -- assuming you're still at the verge of 'it's in the game', are you saying that Wobbuffet shouldn't be banned from competitive play, though? Even in ubers, Wobbuffet is restricted -- not because of hax, though. You know what's the case with Wobbuffet.

Get a Ghost Pokemon and Shadow Punch/Shadow Claw it to death.

Zekira Drake · Jul 19, 2008 12:55 AM

Linoone used Shadow Claw! It's Super Effective!
Wobbuffet used Counter!
Linoone fainted!

Rayquaza used Outrage!
Wobbuffet used Counter!
Rayquaza fainted!

Gengar used Shadow Ball!
It's Super Effective!
Wobbuffet used Mirror Coat!
Gengar fainted!

Wobbuffet uber gay yeah. Besides, with Shadow Tag and Encore... Wobbuffet will own too fast, not unless it gets a taste of my Trapinch ownage, though. I Arena Trap Wobbuffet on the field, then Toxic him to death. Gah.

A Guy · Jul 19, 2008 1:07 AM

As I said before, you should keep a counter for everything on your team.

spyromaster330 · Jul 19, 2008 1:55 PM

I used to loike POkemon when i was about 10 but i dont like it very much now.

Zekira Drake · Jul 19, 2008 3:44 PM

A Guy wrote:

As I said before, you should keep a counter for everything on your team.

But there is only 1, out of a million counters, to Wobbuffet, and that is Arena Trap + Toxic.

A Guy · Jul 19, 2008 3:49 PM

You apparently didn't read my previous posts.

Ghost+Shadow Sneak/Shadow Punch/Shadow Claw.

Zekira Drake · Jul 20, 2008 5:41 AM

Which Wobbuffet would clearly survive in without a boost. Let's review back to a usual Wobbuffet build: 252 EVs in both Def and Sp. Def, with one of them being boosted by nature -- let's assume Sp. Def was boosted.

We will also get the most poweful Ghost-attacker there is, namely Gengar. If it's running a +Sp.Attack nature, with 252 EVs in Atk...

...and launches a Shadow Ball...

Now, at level 100, the minimum HP of a Wobbuffet is 490. It will fail to OHKO. Of course, if Wobbuffet gets sleeped in, it freely switches out. But that won't be a case, since Wobbuffets pack Safeguard.

Wobbuffet will then Mirror Coat back for 600 damage OHKO. If Wobbuffet had Leftovers, then it can take another beating from something a tad weaker than Gengar.

But considering the details, Gengars always go for Timid nature, which is not a +Sp. Atk build. Even if it did get a +Sp. Atk nature, Wobbuffet can't be KOed, then.

Despite its tiny movepool, a lot can be said about Wobbuffet. It jumped straight into the Ubers tier in the Advance generation mainly because of its unique ability, which utterly shatters the concept of switching and countering. Nintendo changed Shadow Tag around in D/P so that two PokÃ©mon with this same ability will be able to switch if both are sent out. This means the dreaded scenario of two Wobbuffet facing each other will no longer end in a draw. However, Shadow Tag is still a ridiculous ability and the abundance of Choice items limiting PokÃ©mon to only one attack makes Wobbuffet's job even easier. The only thing that prevents Wobbuffet from being a complete god among PokÃ©mon is the lack of a recovery move.
Wobbuffet's May 30, 2008 movement from the Limbo Tier to the OU tier was a direct result of no conclusive evidence of the PokÃ©mon overwhelming the standard metagame arising after three months of testing on Shoddy Battle's Official Server's Ladder. It was decided overwhelmingly through a "bold voting" process (voting UBER or OU with a detailed argument) at the end of June 2008 that Wobbuffet belongs in the Uber tier in DP.

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