So three years?

ratchet · Dec 13, 2008 5:29 AM

Razz wrote:

My questions are this. How do you grown while frozen? They were almost like frozen in time. My other question is, if they don't know its been three years why doesn't it shock them that they are bigger then before? Thanks for reading.
Simple: they didn't grow. The game itself shows this. If you compare ANB/TEN Spyro and DotD Spyro, especially when you see him standing beside Ignitus, you'll notice that they are the same size in comparison to Ignitus in both versions. When Spyro and Cynder are freed from the crystal, we see that they really were frozen in that one moment of time.
The reason they look older is solely due to the art style. The developers claim the dragons have aged so they can fly, but if you paid any attention to ANB and TEN, you'll remember that both of them could fly then, too, just not when under the player's control. EL changed the entire art style of the game and that's what's made the dragons look older. If Krome had stayed with the games, Spyro and Cynder probably would have looked the same.
So, story wise, the dragons have not physically grown. They are chronologically three years older, yes, but physically and mentally, they're the same dragons we grew to love in ANB and TEN. They just got a new coat of paint when the developers were switched on us.

Sounds Good and All, Apart from the fact that they WERE MEANT TO HAVE GROWN. Your telling me that They Made Them look older by accident? They were meant to BE OLDER and LOOK OLDER.
Sorry If I sound like a know-it-all but That is the truth.

The developers claim the dragons have aged so they can fly, but if you paid any attention to ANB and TEN, you'll remember that both of them could fly then, too, just not when under the player's control.

Good Point, I guess As they got older they gained mire confidence, Shame Spyro and Cynder Don't say anything about them having any more confidence. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that They used to Be petrafied of Flying and Only do It once in a while but Now Take off with Flight like they're doing their shoelaces.

Spyro Master · Dec 13, 2008 4:16 PM

dragons tie shoelaces? kl lol bt yeh sierra did make em look older to give them an excuse to make them fly any time the player wants which is good i know there are plotholes in spyro which r annoying bt at least we can fly spyro whenever we want now

Razz · Dec 13, 2008 7:39 PM

Sounds Good and All, Apart from the fact that they WERE MEANT TO HAVE GROWN. Your telling me that They Made Them look older by accident? They were meant to BE OLDER and LOOK OLDER.
Sorry If I sound like a know-it-all but That is the truth.

And do you have any proof of this truth?

The developers did the same thing with Cynder's jewelry. It got added back in when she was re-designed and it introduced a huge plot hole, so Mike Graham just said it was all magic.

There is substantial evidence to suggest that Spyro and Cynder did not age. It's in the games themselves. You can't just waltz in and say "Well, I don't think so" and expect everyone to acknowledge your point. I provided evidence to back up my arguments. Yours is...where, exactly?

RedDragonX · Dec 13, 2008 11:13 PM

Razz wrote:

Sounds Good and All, Apart from the fact that they WERE MEANT TO HAVE GROWN. Your telling me that They Made Them look older by accident? They were meant to BE OLDER and LOOK OLDER.
Sorry If I sound like a know-it-all but That is the truth.
And do you have any proof of this truth?
The developers did the same thing with Cynder's jewelry. It got added back in when she was re-designed and it introduced a huge plot hole, so Mike Graham just said it was all magic.
There is substantial evidence to suggest that Spyro and Cynder did not age. It's in the games themselves. You can't just waltz in and say "Well, I don't think so" and expect everyone to acknowledge your point. I provided evidence to back up my arguments. Yours is...where, exactly?

Well that's what Ratchet does best..his own opinion in his mind is what he goes with regardless if he has any real evidence or not. The fact is that when they did push the game with the idea that both dragons were now three years older...they simply left a large loophole...something that they did with many other issues in DotD...there is as said before much more evidence pointing to the fact that they didn't age...and that is seen in the games themselves...the only other evidence to support the fact they did was that Sierra advertised it that way to garner more attention to the game....other then that nothing.

Razz · Dec 13, 2008 11:22 PM

Strictly speaking, in the chronological (time passing) sense, they did age three years. But it's only chronologically. Physically and mentally they are the same dragons we played in ANB and TEN. As I said, the only reason they actually look any older is because of the change in art style.

RedDragonX · Dec 13, 2008 11:31 PM

Yeah and I agree with that idea. Three years have passed so yes technically they are three years older...but their minds and bodies didn't age due to being frozen in time itself....the art change just made them appear to have aged..but I'm sure that someone is going to find some reason as to why this theory is invalid...or at least they will try @.@..

ratchet · Dec 14, 2008 12:21 AM

Fine, If you need proof, I'll get It. But it seems a big co-incidence that they Are 3 years older and look 3 years older but it is only supposed to be a change in art style!

Dra · Dec 14, 2008 5:23 AM

I do strongly believe in the fact that it was only a simple design change in the art and not real aging, but it still kinda confuses me when Sierra (From what I heard) said that they have grown. In a sense, if the gaming company that made the game says that they've grown you'd believe cause it was theirs. It could be the fact that Sierra just failed to put the time into about things but on the other hand it could be art style change like was said before. If I had to believe anything it'd be the art change but it still bothers me the fact that it might not and Sierra just screw up by not thinking the crystal part through.

That brings up this, I only know from what I heard that the game was being released with the main idea that they've grown and can fly. Is this a fact or only a fan view point?

RedDragonX · Dec 14, 2008 4:32 PM

Yes they did push the game with the idea that both Spyro and Cynder have grown and matured during their three year absence..and this was a mistake on Sierra's part seeing as how they left many loopholes such as if they are frozen in time how could they possibly age?...and other things like Cynder's jewelry showing up once more...and if you remember from the first game...Spyro could fly despite his small size...simply because Ignitus taught him how to harness the ability.

Sierra pushed this idea simply to get the gamers more involved in the story itself....after all saying things such as they are now older and stronger will grab most gamers attention...but if you really think about it and obvsere things closely...you can tell that on scale they have not really grown at all...only their design has changed...so the change in art style did put the image in the players mind that they had indeed grown...despite the fact they didn't.

And to Ratchet if you can find any proof that doesn't involve Sierra stating that they are three years older and larger then I might listen..but other then that you have nothing but personal views.

Razz · Dec 14, 2008 8:32 PM

Alright, let's do this right.

Spyro standing near Ignitus in ANB. There's also a good shot of their heads next to each other. He comes roughly up to Ignitus' shoulder.
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery049.jpg
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery033.jpg
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery030.jpg

For good measure, here's the concept art of Terrador, which shows Spyro's size in comparison to an adult dragon.
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery080.jpg

The only screenshot I could find of Spyro and Ignitus from DotD right now is this one of their heads next to each other. If anything, Spyro appears to have gotten even smaller!
http://darkspyro.net/dawn/gallery/images/gallery161.jpg

However, there is this handy cutscene in which we see that, gasp, he only comes up to about Ignitus' shoulder!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmOeVZK … annel_page

In ANB and TEN, Spyro reaches to just below Ignitus' shoulder. In DotD...he's the same size! In terms of personality, he and Cynder are exactly the same as they were by the end of TEN. In terms of physical capabilities, nothing has changed, either. Both dragons could fly in ANB and TEN, just not under player control for most of the games. They are the same sizes they were in the previous games, have the same personalities, and the same capabilities, ergo, Spyro and Cynder have not physically aged and the differences we see in them are due entirely to the change in art style.

And, just for kicks: I was right. Dark Cynder is bigger than the Guardians. big_smile
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery062.jpg

RedDragonX · Dec 14, 2008 8:35 PM

Even more evidence to support the theory...now all we have to do is see just what EVIDENCE Ratchet is talking about...will be interesting to see just what he considers enough to disprove such things.

ratchet · Dec 15, 2008 1:57 PM

Razz wrote:

Alright, let's do this right.
Spyro standing near Ignitus in ANB. There's also a good shot of their heads next to each other. He comes roughly up to Ignitus' shoulder.
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery049.jpg
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery033.jpg
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery030.jpg
For good measure, here's the concept art of Terrador, which shows Spyro's size in comparison to an adult dragon.
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery080.jpg
The only screenshot I could find of Spyro and Ignitus from DotD right now is this one of their heads next to each other. If anything, Spyro appears to have gotten even smaller!
http://darkspyro.net/dawn/gallery/images/gallery161.jpg
However, there is this handy cutscene in which we see that, gasp, he only comes up to about Ignitus' shoulder!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmOeVZK … annel_page
In ANB and TEN, Spyro reaches to just below Ignitus' shoulder. In DotD...he's the same size! In terms of personality, he and Cynder are exactly the same as they were by the end of TEN. In terms of physical capabilities, nothing has changed, either. Both dragons could fly in ANB and TEN, just not under player control for most of the games. They are the same sizes they were in the previous games, have the same personalities, and the same capabilities, ergo, Spyro and Cynder have not physically aged and the differences we see in them are due entirely to the change in art style.
And, just for kicks: I was right. Dark Cynder is bigger than the Guardians.
http://darkspyro.net/legend/gallery/ima … ery062.jpg

When it comes to proportion, Images and Videos canm not be trusted, You will need a real size comparision chart for both ANB/TEN (as you have) and DOTD. The reason for this is because In every screne, Spyro is a different height Compared to Ignitis, Watching that video, You can actually kind of see that spyro is SMALLER than he was before. You can also see in the first picture that Soyro is standing more closer to the camera than Ignitis, which could make him look bigger.
I'll just have to wait for Sierra... but still, with Sierra MARKETING that they'd "grown up", it's hard to believe they werent meant to age.

Razz · Dec 15, 2008 4:47 PM

It's like I said. Chronologically, they are older. Mentally and physically, they are not. The fact that Spyro is smaller in DotD really proves my point: all of it is due to the change in art design.

T3h0v4llu · Dec 15, 2008 6:27 PM

Yeah. The change of the art design might explain it all. They have chronologically grown, who could deny that? How we can know about the mind then? The reason that cynder is bigger than the guardians is that she has a very long neck, perhaps?

Spyro and Ignitus (probably all the other characters too) look very weird in DotD... i even liked the style of ANB more... The colors are trying to be more "serious" too.

RedDragonX · Dec 16, 2008 4:09 AM

Sierra just pushed the idea to get more fans interested in playing the game...saying that Spyro is older and more mature in such...but as for theses scenes you are talking about...I played through every game and I don't really see any of the ideas you pointed out before...but again I guess that would depend on the person...but I really think it was just a change in art style...they wanted this game to be something big...and what better way then to revamp the entire art scheme and character design...to make them appear older and more able to perform amazing feats.....so they pushed everything they could into this attempt...leaving loopholes in the rush to make something so grand.

ratchet · Dec 16, 2008 4:22 AM

Razz wrote:

It's like I said. Chronologically, they are older. Mentally and physically, they are not. The fact that Spyro is smaller in DotD really proves my point: all of it is due to the change in art design.

When they reffered to Spyro "growing up" I'm pretty sure they meant actually Phisically AND emotionally. It's pretty weird saying that he had grown up but he looks and acts exaculy the same.

RedDragonX · Dec 16, 2008 4:23 AM

Need I say that it was just another loophole that was used by Sierra for their own gain in the end...needless to say it didn't work very much...but it was a good attempt.

Razz · Dec 16, 2008 7:45 PM

If you pay attention to Spyro's behavior at the end of TEN and his behavior for most of DotD, you'll notice it hasn't changed one bit. He's still depressed and suffering from the loss of confidence (and innocence) he recieved in TEN. Cynder is still struggling with her own doubts and which side she's really on, just as she was in TEN. They have not grown emotionally or mentally. In fact, much of DotD is devoted to their growth as individuals from the traumas they suffered in TEN.

What does this tell us? They both dragons (and Sparx) were frozen in a moment of time where they did not change. When the crystal shatters, we even hear that moment in time repeat itself. I don't see how anyone is missing this, but it's written all over the game that they didn't age.

RedDragonX · Dec 16, 2008 8:01 PM

Well I didn't miss it...I pointed it out to begin with lol...but yeah all of these things add up..while claiming that "Why would Sierra do that if they didn't actually make them grow.".....again...actually I wont point out why...I have already said it about a hundred times over again....but yes it is written all over this game that fact that they didn't age one day.

T3h0v4llu · Dec 16, 2008 8:07 PM

ratchet wrote:

Razz wrote:
It's like I said. Chronologically, they are older. Mentally and physically, they are not. The fact that Spyro is smaller in DotD really proves my point: all of it is due to the change in art design.
When they reffered to Spyro "growing up" I'm pretty sure they meant actually Phisically AND emotionally. It's pretty weird saying that he had grown up but he looks and acts exaculy the same.

Well, the question is: Why havent spyro's voice changed in the progress? I would expect that when he ages a little, turns more mature and such, then he would sound like atleast like a "young adult". When goes to puberty (you can see the change from the kid-spyro to the three-years-old-spyro, which is a masculine figure than the younger. More feminine shapes have grown to cynder too), they turn adult (voice changes deeper). We all know that the voice changing is due to the growth of the vocal cords in his throat, so the "they didnt grow emotionally!!!!" is not going to work in this situation.

Sierra will probably answer: "LOL they are dragonz0rz!!!!! they dont evolve like humans do!!! XD!!"

Funny thing is, if they are going to continue the horrible tlos series, is spyro going to always stay helium? Elijah Wood's voice is pretty girly. Yeah, and they are not definetly going to change the spyro's voice actor since they already have a big name like him.

RedDragonX · Dec 16, 2008 8:20 PM

Well at least you take the time to really bash Sierra anyways lol...personally I don't see anything wrong with Elijahs voice for the charcter..I liked it...and the fact that their voices have not really changed..except for Cynder's and Sparx...it is just loopholes that Sierra really wont have an answer for seeing as how they only said it to get more people interested in the game..but all in all they didn't do bad...I liked the change of design..and most of the voices granted...but again it's all personal opinion after all....I don't find the series so "horrible"..but that's just me after all...

Razz · Dec 16, 2008 8:21 PM

Okay, some further proof that they haven't aged (as if the fact that they're the same size and same personality as before isn't enough...and apparently it isn't).

We know that adult female dragons (or at least Cynder herself) grow to be longer than males. In ANB and TEN, Cynder and Spyro were the same size. It stands to reason that, if they had actually grown, she would be showing signs of being longer than him by now. But guess what? She's the exact same size as Spyro! Just like before! Coincidence? Yeah, no.

We can also safely assume that most dragons age the same way humans do (this is pretty evident by official information that Spyro and Cynder were twelve in TEN). By that logic, we would be able to see some physical changes in Spyro and Cynder if they had actually grown three years. But we see none, because they have not grown.

Further proof. You can actually see that Spyro aged a tiny bit between ANB and TEN. He got a bit leaner and lost the puppy-ish stumble to his gait. In DotD, he has a similar youngster gait to the one he has in TEN, but nothing else about him physically has changed.

If EL had done ANB and TEN, Spyro and Cynder would have looked the way they do in DotD. If Krome had done DotD, Spyro and Cynder would have most likely looked the way they do in ANB and TEN. This is one big reason why I really wish they hadn't changed the art style on us. It's torn several plot holes into the series which wouldn't have been there if they'd left the style the same (or remembered to put Cynder's evil jewelry on her at the end of TEN big_smile ).

That's further proof, actually, that this is all just a big plot hole that marketing at Sierra is trying to hide. Cynder did not have her jewely on at the end of TEN, when she was frozen. But she's got it back in DotD? Why? Mike Graham says it's just magic, which is okay, but he and Chris have also confirmed that Spyro and Cynder were trapped in that crystal this whole time. When did Cynder have time to get her jewelry back? She didn't. It is literally a gaping plot hole created by her re-design by EL.

RedDragonX · Dec 16, 2008 8:26 PM

Yeah...I agree with all those points.....they used the loophole of them not growing to their advantage by trying to push the game to more consumers with the ideal that they have grown...when if you notice they have not actually...but other then that yes...the change of design really did leave many open loopholes....but at least the designs are still pretty sweet...

T3h0v4llu · Dec 17, 2008 6:17 AM

No physical changes? OK.

ratchet · Dec 17, 2008 10:18 AM

Razz wrote:

If you pay attention to Spyro's behavior at the end of TEN and his behavior for most of DotD, you'll notice it hasn't changed one bit. He's still depressed and suffering from the loss of confidence (and innocence) he recieved in TEN. Cynder is still struggling with her own doubts and which side she's really on, just as she was in TEN. They have not grown emotionally or mentally. In fact, much of DotD is devoted to their growth as individuals from the traumas they suffered in TEN.

You're pretty right, Spyro doesn't show many different emosions to TEN, But Cynder, Defiently. Just how she acts, is more carefree, more tennagerish, She isn't Emo like in TEN.

What does this tell us? They both dragons (and Sparx) were frozen in a moment of time where they did not change. When the crystal shatters, we even hear that moment in time repeat itself. I don't see how anyone is missing this, but it's written all over the game that they didn't age.

But Again, It is Very coincidentle that Sierra were promoting that they had "grown up", and they look older but It was only by accident.

Well, the question is: Why havent spyro's voice changed in the progress? I would expect that when he ages a little, turns more mature and such, then he would sound like atleast like a "young adult". When goes to puberty (you can see the change from the kid-spyro to the three-years-old-spyro, which is a masculine figure than the younger. More feminine shapes have grown to cynder too), they turn adult (voice changes deeper). We all know that the voice changing is due to the growth of the vocal cords in his throat, so the "they didnt grow emotionally!!!!" is not going to work in this situation.
Sierra will probably answer: "LOL they are dragonz0rz!!!!! they dont evolve like humans do!!! XD!!"
Funny thing is, if they are going to continue the horrible tlos series, is spyro going to always stay helium? Elijah Wood's voice is pretty girly. Yeah, and they are not definetly going to change the spyro's voice actor since they already have a big name like him.

Eh, I think Cause Wood Has an Adult voice already, they just said "Stuff it, we'll keep his voice as it is, We don't need to change it like Malefor" I Mean, Don't you think his voice was Too old For Spyro in ANB and TEN anyway!

We know that adult female dragons (or at least Cynder herself) grow to be longer than males. In ANB and TEN, Cynder and Spyro were the same size. It stands to reason that, if they had actually grown, she would be showing signs of being longer than him by now. But guess what? She's the exact same size as Spyro! Just like before! Coincidence? Yeah, no.

There's no evidence that Female dragons grow longer than Males. Hell her exta large size when she was evil was just caused by the dark Master, Remember how large the dark master is? We know the Dark Master can influence Undragonlike abilities to other dragons, hence why Cyndef has 4 breaths and why she grew so quick in the first place.

We can also safely assume that most dragons age the same way humans do (this is pretty evident by official information that Spyro and Cynder were twelve in TEN). By that logic, we would be able to see some physical changes in Spyro and Cynder if they had actually grown three years. But we see none, because they have not grown.

Ah, yes we have, Get almost any picture of Spyro in TEN and comapre it to him in DOTD and we see much different changes, He obviously looks older.

Further proof. You can actually see that Spyro aged a tiny bit between ANB and TEN. He got a bit leaner and lost the puppy-ish stumble to his gait. In DotD, he has a similar youngster gait to the one he has in TEN, but nothing else about him physically has changed.

Again, Theres no denying they look different, older.

If EL had done ANB and TEN, Spyro and Cynder would have looked the way they do in DotD. If Krome had done DotD, Spyro and Cynder would have most likely looked the way they do in ANB and TEN. This is one big reason why I really wish they hadn't changed the art style on us. It's torn several plot holes into the series which wouldn't have been there if they'd left the style the same (or remembered to put Cynder's evil jewelry on her at the end of TEN ).

We don't know what would have happened...

That's further proof, actually, that this is all just a big plot hole that marketing at Sierra is trying to hide. Cynder did not have her jewely on at the end of TEN, when she was frozen. But she's got it back in DotD? Why? Mike Graham says it's just magic, which is okay, but he and Chris have also confirmed that Spyro and Cynder were trapped in that crystal this whole time. When did Cynder have time to get her jewelry back? She didn't. It is literally a gaping plot hole created by her re-design by EL.

Yes, We already know that's a loophole, And This other one is also a loophole. Saying it is just magic is just stupid, They obviously dont know how to explain plotholes.

Yeah...I agree with all those points.....they used the loophole of them not growing to their advantage by trying to push the game to more consumers with the ideal that they have grown...when if you notice they have not actually...but other then that yes...the change of design really did leave many open loopholes....but at least the designs are still pretty sweet...

.....Sounds very confusing.
Are you saying that "EL first did their deign of Spyro and then Sierra decided that they looked older in that style so they marketid it when EL wasn't intentially making them look bigger"
Still, they marketed that they had "grown up" and i'm pretty sure Growing up MEANS growing.
It's also very co-incidentil.
....I think we'll just have to wait For Sierra to Give a verdict....

#51 Dec 13, 2008 5:29 AM

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