My thoughts on Proposition 8

Game_Girl_2007 · Nov 09, 2008 1:51 AM

cooldude22345 wrote:

Homosexuality also means the spreading of more deseases, if people are not careful.

and what in the name of Gaia is THAT supposed to mean? >=(

So Stormy. If I wanted to marry a girl I loved, that would be immoral? I'm sorry, didn't realise love was a bad thing.

Some of you think 'but gays have civil partnerships.; IT'S NOT THE SAME AS MARRIAGE. Civil partnerships don't have all the same rights as marriage. I ain't gonna find it for you. Look it up yourself.

Marriage is NOT about a man and a woman. Marriage is about love. Or did people forget that?

cooldude22345 · Nov 09, 2008 2:00 AM

if somebody is homosexual and they aren't careful, that opens the door to much more spreading of deseases.

now heed the words if people aren't careful.

Kamineko · Nov 09, 2008 2:20 AM

Game_Girl_2007 wrote:

Marriage is NOT about a man and a woman. Marriage is about love. Or did people forget that?

Don't try to argue that, the term marriage has been so warped over the years it's completely lost any meaning outside of "two people who want to be together".

Hell, marriage originated as a land owner deciding he wants to have more workers, so he forced two workers to "marry", thus forcing them to have kids and provide him with more workers.

Then of course you have scheduled marriages which is when the parents decide who their kids are going to marry for the sake of money and property.

So basically, marriage has become a throw-away term and now its only real use in today's society is to provide benefits to couples. If marriage was only about love, the benefits shouldn't even play an issue and getting married wouldn't even be necessary since two people can love each other without being married. All it does is give them money if the other dies. But again, love plays no role in that.

I am against civil unions but for gay marriage. Even if civil unions provided the exact same benefits of marriage but for gay couples, all that would do is go back to the "separate but equal" times of the 1950s, which was outlawed by the Supreme Court.

Game_Girl_2007 · Nov 09, 2008 2:20 AM

What do you mean DIseases? What diseases? Don't you DARE say AIDS. (Straight people can get AIDS too you know. Don't believe that bullcrap about AIDS being a gay disease)

You know, the Wicca religion performs gay marriages here.

In Wicca, we believe love is pure in all forms. Love is a gift from the great goddess and in her words she states 'All acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals.'.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 09, 2008 2:44 AM

game girl used the word "you" in such a way to refer, not to the reader, but to potential readers of her post, everyone has done it at some point

its funny that everyone is claiming she's referring to religious people in her post, but ignore the fact that she used "you" to refer to homosexuals too (...just because you are homosexual...) the word you doesnt always mean youre comments are directed at the reader, its often used to address society as a whole

sexual diseases are possible in any relationship if youre not careful, its funny when people claim that AIDS is god punishing homosexuals (especially since heterosexuals can catch it too) does that mean that cervical cancer is god punishing heterosexual couples? (because cervical cancer can be contracted by women from the first time they have sex)

for the record, being able to marry does not mean youre able to adopt (at least i dont think so) adoption agencies have their own rules and requirements before they allow someone to adopt, and assumedly, if they wanted to then homosexual couples could be unable to adopt.

i was raised primarily by my mother, i did get to see my dad a fair bit, but i was "raised" by my mum, i dont see myself as any more or less feminine/masculine than anyone else. i admit i dont have a large interest in cars and i dont drink very often, but i dont see that as a bad thing to be honest. my point is, the way youre raised can have an affect on who you turn out to be, but if youre born male, you will remain male unless there was some mix up with hormones/genes from birth. people who feel the need to become a member of the opposite gender, rarely, if ever do so because of the way they were raised, most of the time, nobody is more shocked (and in some cases angry or disgusted) than their own family.

also, as i said, i have my own doubts about homosexual couples rearing children, but in the end, a child is better off with 2 same gender parents than no parents at all, and thanks to the education system, its always going to be possible for them to find a suitable alternate gender role model in a teacher or peer group, heck theyll often have uncles aunts, grandparents, cousins, etc.

thats the thing about homosexuals, they arent just an island in a sea of normal human beings, theyre part of a family, someones child/sibling/cousin etc.

and as a final remark, it is silly to say all christians hate gays, because as we see here, many christians just try to ignore them and dont try to enforce their beliefs on them, its the christian god that hates gays, he's the one that will supposedly send them to hell, not his followers

cooldude22345 · Nov 09, 2008 2:55 AM

...No, god loves all people. Every second we are alive is because of his grace. If he didn't love homosexuals enough, they would all go to hell without being given a chance.

Alright, I'm done with this topic.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 09, 2008 3:02 AM

i cant imagine loving someone and then sending them to a place where they will suffer for ever

but lets put it this way then, he hates homosexuals who dont make the right choice that he apparently gives them

seriously though i wouldnt send/allow anyone to go to hell regardless of whether i loved them or hated them, i think there are people who deserve to suffer, but forever is a long time, far too long to spend in pain, regardless of what youve done

saphira17 · Nov 09, 2008 3:29 AM

Being selfish is wrong. We teach kids that. And I'm not even gettin into the Bible thing. I've already debated that with someone else about it quite a bit. And, it's not that God hates the homosexual, it's that he hates the "sin" of it. Although I do have to agree that it is taking away someone's right. As was the law about smoking in public places, or in some states, guys wearing their pants too low is against the law. Where I am against it, it shouldn't be made a law, because it is someone's right.

John Man 1234 · Nov 09, 2008 3:40 AM

Being selffish is wrong but I try my best to be a kind and loving person each day and knowing God is watching over and loving me and I have the best friends and family and loved ones encourages me more. Also Game Girl if two people are the same gender and they truly love one another yes they can get married if they want to but no need to get mad.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 09, 2008 3:52 AM

i think the biggest problem with prop 8, is the fact that everyone was made to vote on something that really only affects the gay community

really, marriage isnt a christian only thing, people get married in las vegas by people dressed as elvis, atheists get married, just because the ceremony is often (not always) preformed by a priest, doesnt mean it is all about religion.

its wont affect society as a whole, all it does for gays is give them the ability to express their love for each other cermeonially and grant them some form of tax benefit or something

thats the problem, its like someone asking for council permission to put an extra storey on their house, and having an entire state vote on it, when realistically, only the small population of the neighbourhood is affected

that was a horrible analogy im sorry

and as for god hating the sin not the sinner, many of us believe homosexuality is a natural occurence so in our minds, that cant really work, but i guess thats something that really needs to be proven without shadow of doubt, science needs to find out if there is something psychological/gentic/hormonal that makes someone gay, and maybe then we can all come to a slightly more unanimous conclusion as tothe morality of homosexuality

RaidonMakoto · Nov 09, 2008 5:52 AM

Atresac wrote:

I found out about sex when i was maybe 7, and I still never thought about it other than knowing it was a silly-sounding thing.
If you're actually telling me you had a sexual drive at 5 years old, you were one deeply disturbed child.

It was about the same age as when you found out (six or seven), not five, and yeah, I guess I am disturbed and proud. big_smile

if somebody is homosexual and they aren't careful, that opens the door to much more spreading of deseases.

The same thing can happen with heterosexual couples...

Being selfish is wrong. We teach kids that.

How is it wrong to want to do something that benefits yourself? I see nothing wrong with being selfish, and I definitely won't teach my kids that being selfish is wrong.

If everyone is looking out for everyone else, then who is looking out for you?

Fletch_Talon · Nov 09, 2008 9:37 AM

being selfish has its limits though, you have to have a happy medium, too selfless and you leave nothing for yourself, too selfish and nobody will like you, and rightly so

Stormy · Nov 09, 2008 2:07 PM

So Stormy. If I wanted to marry a girl I loved, that would be immoral? I'm sorry, didn't realise love was a bad thing.

Gahhh, this is why I usually avoid these types of threads. I can't stand the attacking. >___>

Yes, I think it would be. I'm sorry that you disagree, but I have given further reasons than "it's immoral."

Atresac wrote:

Well then just know in accordance to your beliefs at least 30% of kids growing up now will not learn to be of their own gender.

*laughs* I seem to have worded that incorrectly. XD

What I meant to say was that there are certain problems only women have that no man would understand, and the other way around.

Kamineko · Nov 09, 2008 6:02 PM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

being selfish has its limits though, you have to have a happy medium, too selfless and you leave nothing for yourself, too selfish and nobody will like you, and rightly so

Well being selfish is pretty much doing what makes you happy, and keeping yourself happy is what life should be about.

If helping other people, like people you care about, makes you feel good, then you should do that. But even selflessness is fueled by selfishness.

saphira17 · Nov 09, 2008 8:31 PM

Not necessarily altresac. Sometimes being selfish is doing something to make someone else unhappy. Let's use the example of two kids. One has the sweetest new toy and he has two. THe other wants to play, but instead of sharing he keeps it to himself just so the other kid can't play. Maybe not very relative to the point we are trying to keep, but still. It goes both ways. But being happy isn't what life is all about, allthough it is nice. But let's stick to the subject.

A Guy · Nov 09, 2008 9:48 PM

Congratulations on the magic gem number.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 10, 2008 12:44 AM

woah good spotting a guy, 1337 (leet) gems for the win

and as for the selfishness thing, i have to agree with sapphira, selfishness is often more than a wish to make yourself happy, it becomes (whether intentionally or not) a disregard for the happiness of others, meaning youre more likely to do something that will upset someone else.

RaidonMakoto · Nov 10, 2008 1:00 AM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

woah good spotting a guy, 1337 (leet) gems for the win
and as for the selfishness thing, i have to agree with sapphira, selfishness is often more than a wish to make yourself happy, it becomes (whether intentionally or not) a disregard for the happiness of others, meaning youre more likely to do something that will upset someone else.

And, may I say, who cares? Self-preservation is my ultimate goal. Not everything that is good for yourself is morally reprehensible, and it isn't a sufficient reason for *bleep*/bisexuality being wrong.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 10, 2008 1:31 AM

RaidonMakoto wrote:

Fletch_Talon wrote:
woah good spotting a guy, 1337 (leet) gems for the win
and as for the selfishness thing, i have to agree with sapphira, selfishness is often more than a wish to make yourself happy, it becomes (whether intentionally or not) a disregard for the happiness of others, meaning youre more likely to do something that will upset someone else.
And, may I say, who cares? Self-preservation is my ultimate goal. Not everything that is good for yourself is morally reprehensible, and it isn't a sufficient reason for *Bleep*/bisexuality being wrong.

its agood thing that was never the point i was making then isnt it.

i never said anything about bisexuality being wrong, and i certainly didnt do so using "its selfish" as a reason

the point i was making is thatits just as unhealthy to live a completely selfish life, as it is to live a completely selfless one, like pretty much everything in life you need balance, you should be assertive, but not aggressive; flexible, but not submissive.

basically someone thats too selfless is going to spend life as a doormat, and someone that is too selfish is going to end up alone and unhappy, because thats what happens to *bleep*s

and for the record, ive not made any claims in regards to how selfish anyone here is, i dont know any of you personally so i cant make that judgment, all i can do is state what are in my eyes facts, and i think youll find that society as a whole (not just religious groups or those who consider themselves, more moral than thou) would agree.

saphira17 · Nov 10, 2008 1:31 AM

It isn't the only reason either. So, RaidonMakoto, in order to make ones self feel good, one must hurt others to do so. **sarcastic laughs**

A Guy · Nov 10, 2008 1:49 AM

saphira17 wrote:

It isn't the only reason either. So, RaidonMakoto, in order to make ones self feel good, one must hurt others to do so. **sarcastic laughs**

Not exactly. I do some running, and it makes me feel good without hurting anyone.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 10, 2008 2:06 AM

yeah a guy is right, not everything works that way

but in saying that, there are people who find happiness in the pain/unhappiness of others, for example, people often make other people feel bad in order to feel better themselves

all im saying is that its not really a black/white kinda thing, like most topics there are areas of grey

RaidonMakoto · Nov 10, 2008 2:39 AM

saphira17 wrote:

It isn't the only reason either. So, RaidonMakoto, in order to make ones self feel good, one must hurt others to do so. **sarcastic laughs**

I'm not your garden variety troll, saphira. wink

saphira17 · Nov 10, 2008 3:11 AM

First, I wasn't saying anyone specific, I meant people in general. Second, you know what I meant about the making yourself feel good. Fletcher kinda got my point out better than I did.

Fletch_Talon · Nov 10, 2008 3:53 AM

RaidonMakoto wrote:

saphira17 wrote:
It isn't the only reason either. So, RaidonMakoto, in order to make ones self feel good, one must hurt others to do so. **sarcastic laughs**
I'm not your garden variety troll, saphira.

you big silly, gnomes live in gardens, trolls live under bridges

#51 Nov 09, 2008 1:51 AM

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