Debates

Fletch_Talon · Jul 15, 2008 5:59 AM

ratchet wrote:

I guess i wont live in Australia then if the government seems to not let people make their own decisions.

lol, so where are you going to live? I'm pretty sure youll find the US and UK have the same or similar system, probably most of Europe too (though i wont make too many assumptions about those wacky Euros). most of Asia as well I would assume, especially considering Asian parents push their kids to suceed and all that.

maybe you could live somewhere in the middle east where theyre too busy having the crap bombed out of them to get a decent education.

please note i never said you cant have an opinion on the subject, i simply said its very questionable since, you havnt fully experienced what youre talking about.

you assume (not to be confused with know) most people dont use most of the stuff they learn in school, and this assumption is (i assume) based on people youve talked to or something, believe it or not, people you know do not make up the majority of the population

ratchet · Jul 15, 2008 6:22 AM

believe it or not, people you know do not make up the majority of the population

I am also quite aware of that, but my test was on a smaller scale.. But yeah, i see where your getting at.
Give us an example of how you use Most of the stuff you learn in school or in jobs, and when i say most, i mean most.
And please dont say things like "it will help you judge the expression in one's wtiting" because those things are not very proven.

lol, so where are you going to live? I'm pretty sure youll find the US and UK have the same or similar system, probably most of Europe too (though i wont make too many assumptions about those wacky Euros). most of Asia as well I would assume, especially considering Asian parents push their kids to suceed and all that.
maybe you could live somewhere in the middle east where theyre too busy having the crap bombed out of them to get a decent education.

Dont worry, i'll try to evade the system somehow. But if my kid does really want to go to school, i wont have to move anywhere exotic, because you seem to think that he/she will "want to suceed".

A Guy · Jul 15, 2008 1:49 PM

In the US, all children must go to school. Failure to do so is known as truancy, and is punishable by law.

Doppelgangergang · Jul 15, 2008 4:47 PM

A Guy wrote:

In the US, all children must go to school. Failure to do so is known as truancy, and is punishable by law.

Also true in Canada.

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 12:53 AM

A Guy wrote:

In the US, all children must go to school. Failure to do so is known as truancy, and is punishable by law.

I am also quite aware of that. Its Australian law too you know!

TheManiacOnWheels · Jul 16, 2008 1:12 AM

Still have at least five years left of school...
I have a grudge against the buildings that're happening in my town. In a couple, it'll end up like Melbourne sad . I like it small!

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 1:16 AM

Atleast in australia they let you quit just after year 10. But our stupid government is thinking of getting it changed to year 12 because they think it will lower "crime rates". Why make someone go to school for an extra 2 years and make them do work that they dont need. Yes, i knw some just dont do anything, but some go into a trade and start to make green!

Doppelgangergang · Jul 16, 2008 1:21 AM

ratchet wrote:

But our stupid government is thinking of getting it changed to year 12 because they think it will lower "crime rates".

Sounds like a ploy to reduce crime rates. And reduce security loads. If you know what I mean.

TheManiacOnWheels · Jul 16, 2008 1:21 AM

It drives me nuts. Somehow, I don't think an extra two years of stressful study's gonna lower crime rates...there's still the alcohol factor and the drugs factor, and peer pressure...yeah, the list's ongoing.

Spyro_Loves_Me · Jul 16, 2008 5:58 AM

It's different in every state on when you can drop out. I know in Georgia you can drop out at 16. Most states are trying to raise it to 18 and some have. But dropping out isn't the best idea so I wouldn't even consider it.

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 9:05 AM

Doppelgangergang wrote:

ratchet wrote:
But our stupid government is thinking of getting it changed to year 12 because they think it will lower "crime rates".
Sounds like a ploy to reduce crime rates. And reduce security loads. If you know what I mean.

Thats exaculy what it is! Even my mum (who is a big fan of education) thinls that its stupid. Lets just hope it doesn't happen wink

Somehow, I don't think an extra two years of stressful study's gonna lower crime rates...there's still the alcohol factor and the drugs factor, and peer pressure...yeah, the list's ongoing.

I think they think that students will be more board, and turn to crime. But while their in school, they have plenty of study and assignements to keep them busy.

But dropping out isn't the best idea so I wouldn't even consider it.

Only thanks to this stupid system!

spyromaster330 · Jul 16, 2008 9:29 AM

ratchet wrote:

Atleast in australia they let you quit just after year 10. But our stupid government is thinking of getting it changed to year 12 because they think it will lower "crime rates". Why make someone go to school for an extra 2 years and make them do work that they dont need. Yes, i knw some just dont do anything, but some go into a trade and start to make green!

Are you kidding???? I hope they dont raise it to year 12. That would actually raise crime rates because loads of people would be wagging school.

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 9:31 AM

That would actually raise crime rates because loads of people would be wagging school.

Thats statement confused me

spyromaster330 · Jul 16, 2008 9:36 AM

ratchet wrote:

That would actually raise crime rates because loads of people would be wagging school.
Thats statement confused me

Well i meant that if they made people have to go to school to year 12 it would raise crime because people who dont want to be there would probaly wag school which is a crime. Wheras if they just kept it so you could drop out at year 10 people wouldnt be wagging so they wouldnt be comminting a crime. I dont think i explained it too well but yeah.

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 9:38 AM

thats not really what i meant by crime rates. more crimes like vandalism and theft

Fletch_Talon · Jul 16, 2008 9:42 AM

i have to agree the grade 10 drop out option should continue, though not for the reasons youve said

people who dislike school and think its a waste of time make life hard for everyone else, not just themselves, grade 11 and 12 were insanely difficult for me, i can only imagine what it would have been like if i had to put up with the losers who seem to think that just because they dont want to pay attention in class everyone else feels the same

as far as keeping kids in school = decreased crime rate, yeah i think it would, but it wouldnt do so by much, the majority of kids committing crimes will do so whether theyre in school or not

if you go to school and dont like the work and dont do it ive got nothing against you, but when you constantly disrupt the class by being a moron, regardless of the grade, then you *bleep* me off

lets take a look at something

engineering
programming

both require fairly high level maths (probably the highest at least for engineering)
you do 2 years of high level maths so you have the skills/knowledge to get into the engineering course
you finish that course and decide to do programming instead, thankfully you already have the skills/knowledge to get into the programming course

the only difference with your system is that instead of learning the stuff before you go to uni, you learn it in uni

you say that all the stuff youve been doing is useless, the problem with that logic is, that a large number (i would hazard saying a majority) of people youre age still dont have a clue what they want to do, and those who do are very likely to change theyre mind, including yourself to be perfectly honest.

the system youve come up with revolves around people who arent even teenagers yet (or if so, then only recently) making life changing decisions, there are reasons you arent allowed to drink/smoke/gamble, before you turn 18 (here in aus) its got to do with you not being of a sufficient maturity level (in the eyes of the law, personally i dont think many are mature enough by the time theyre 25)

spyromaster330 · Jul 16, 2008 10:13 AM

Well last year i never did my work. Though it didnt really matter that much because i was in grade 6 last year and i went to a small school and we had grades 4, 5 and 6 in my classroom so we were always doing grade 4 work in maths. I hate the school i go to now but i cant not do my work because the teachers are really strict and if you dont you get a friday night detention straight away.

On the rare occasion that i actually bothered to do my work last year, the kids that always mucked around actually annoyed me then. I was annoying last year i know that. I probaly still am now but oh well.

Last year i know the stuff i "learnt" was useless because it was all grade 4 work in maths mainly. Lucky i did grade 6 maths in grade 5 and grade 5 in grade 4 and so on because i was ahead. But now im back to doing year 7 maths in year 7 because i didnt do any maths last year. I havent really decided what i want to do when im older yet so i dont know what will be useful and what wont. I think i do want to work with computers though when im older.

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 10:16 AM

Like i've said, there could be a system where People could either Stay at School or they could go and learn the spacific thing where they want to learn, and get a job. Also, i believe Public education should be more open to different ages.
Like i've said also, School doesn't give you a full understanding on your job. My mother loved Chemistry at her school, and thought that she'd like pharmacy, but she HATES her job. There are many other people who do not like their job, even though they've been to school for 13 years.
And yes i know theres the case of how good you might be at your job, and that people cant be good at everything but school doesn't ensure that either. AS i've said, you could do subjects in year 12 which have nothing to do with the job you want to be in, and you can get in, you can even be crap at that subject but still get in.

As for what i want to be/good at correspondoing to school, it hasn't told me much, because i appear to be good at and like every subject except wood works (the practical side) and sport (yes, i'm am a sissy). I havn't really found out much from school (partly because it is very easy)

thankfully you already have the skills/knowledge to GET into the programming course

See in my system, you wont need to "get" into it, you just do it. If you dont like the engeneering, just go and do the programming. And no, it wont take any longer because if you add up all the stuff you learnt in maths, actually, my system would be shorter, because it doesn't have all the other stuff you learnt in maths in school, if you know what i mean.

spyromaster330 · Jul 16, 2008 10:19 AM

ratchet wrote:

thats not really what i meant by crime rates. more crimes like vandalism and theft

oh ok then

Fletch_Talon · Jul 16, 2008 10:59 AM

ratchet wrote:

thankfully you already have the skills/knowledge to GET into the programming course
See in my system, you wont need to "get" into it, you just do it. If you dont like the engeneering, just go and do the programming. And no, it wont take any longer because if you add up all the stuff you learnt in maths, actually, my system would be shorter, because it doesn't have all the other stuff you learnt in maths in school, if you know what i mean.

im going to respond to this then go play WoW because this is the part you dont seem to get

you do grade 1 maths to teach you what you need to know in grade 2 maths
you do grade 2 maths to teach you what you need to know in grade 3 maths
skip to grade 10
you do grade 10 maths to teach you what you need to know in grade 11/12 maths
you do grade 11/12 maths to teach you what you need to know in life and/or university

in grade 11/12 (in australia)

you choose maths a if your future doesnt require excessive maths (everyone needs maths in life, even grade 12 lvl maths, at its worst its probably just slightly high level algebra, algebra is important, if you dont know why then ask someone else, im getting sick of explaining things)

you choose maths b if it will involve a lot of maths (programming i spose, some form of science, law perhaps? but probably more for the logical problem solving and justification areas of maths)

and maths c is for smart *bleep*s who want to be engineers or something like that

if people are doing subjects that have nothing to do with their future career, then theyre choosing the wrong subjects, again, university course have requirements because they are requirements, they are their to make sure you are

a) intelligent enough to complete the course
and/or
b) possessing the information and skills required to complete the course

they are not there because

1. everyone dislikes you and wants you to stay out of society for as long as possible
2. parents need someone to look after you while theyre at work
3. the government thinks it will decrease the crime rate
4. any other reason you could probably think of

when you get to 15 you are considered old enough, to make decisions based on your future, hence the reason in grade 11 and 12 you choose courses related to what you want to be in the future, the set courses are maths and english which are life skills, you speak the english language, it doesnt hurt to know as much about it as you can, and you will use maths after leaving school, if not before

ratchet · Jul 16, 2008 1:32 PM

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because i'm obviously not convincing you, and your not convincing me.
I'll never see how Maths will help me in every day life (no, i'm not talking about basic maths, but your smart enough to know that) and i'll never see that subjects need to be taught, even though you probably wont need them.
Though you have convinced me on some things, such as the fact that 9 year olds can not make life long decisions.
My main Point is that Students should be allowed to make up their mind on what they want to learn and do with their life, instead of being forced to learn. And certain things shouldn't be taught because they are just a lot of waist of time.
And yes, school should be compalsary for many years, though the system still needs a complete overhaul, and subjects should be chosen more.

Fletch_Talon · Jul 16, 2008 3:14 PM

at least we agree its not perfect, overall thats the most important thing, if more people start realising that then maybe the government will review the issues with the current system.

#76 Jul 15, 2008 5:59 AM

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