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#51 Jul 12, 2008 5:59 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

1. as said before you are not permitted to work until you are at least 15

I would change that rule too!

2. just because you feel you would be good at designing games doesnt mean you have what it takes to do well in the industry

True, but thats a fact with everyone. Even if you go to school, do well in a subject and like it, doesn't mean you will do well in the industry.

3. if every pre teen was able to pick their job and start training for it before theyve even gotten to highschool, there would be a hell of a lot of game designers, policemen, firemen etc. and very few engineers, politicians, and other similar jobs which dont seem as fun at age 12

Who said no kids enjoy politics or engeneering, besides, maybe when a child gets older, he may want to become a politician or engeneer and quit his current job. Also, i would make a system where you could stay at school if you want OR you could leave school and take a corce.

4. proper game design i would imagine would require a fair bit more than a grade 8 completion of mathematics, i recall a couple of years ago you had to at least complete Maths B (the lowest form being maths A, and highest maths C) with a Low achievement to get into the course for game design, now a low achievement doesnt sound like much, but maths b is a very complex subject, and it wouldnt surprise me if the requirements have gone up since then

Ok, i was exadurating, learning game design doesn't take only a few years, but it was just an example, i was saying that this time waisted in school may of been used for things that kids actually want to learn, and helps them.

thats another purpose the current education system serves, its there to guide you, give you an idea of what jobs are out there and the kind of skills they require. if you arent doing too well in (for example) maths then game design, engineering, being a pilot are not really in your future

Not necesarily, People who have been crap at subjects at school haved excelled in careers related then that subject.

Anyway, School isn't seeming to guide any of the people in my school, including me, I like no subjects at school, does that mean that i wont like any Career i choose?
Also, if your theory is right, why do asian's parents maker their children do well in maths (and believe me, they do) when they want their children to be a doctor or a lawyer?

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#52 Jul 12, 2008 6:05 AM

Spyro_Loves_Me: Member; From: Right behind you! AHH!, United; Registered: Jul 03, 2007; Posts: 1,129; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

Also, if your theory is right, why do asian's parents maker their children do well in maths (and believe me, they do) when they want their children to be a doctor or a lawyer?
Nope. That's false. I'm half Korean and math comes naturally for me. Same with many others. It's just easy. But there are still plenty out there who aren't the brightest in math ...
My parents aren't pushing me towards being a doctor or lawyer though I really wouldn't mind. They're really letting me decide my future.

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#53 Jul 12, 2008 7:30 AM

Fletch_Talon: Member; From: Merry Ol' Land of Oz; Registered: May 28, 2008; Posts: 785; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

1. as said before you are not permitted to work until you are at least 15
I would change that rule too!

its a good rule if you have a problem with it, please leave this country and move to a country which doesnt have child labour laws

2. just because you feel you would be good at designing games doesnt mean you have what it takes to do well in the industry
True, but thats a fact with everyone. Even if you go to school, do well in a subject and like it, doesn't mean you will do well in the industry.

true, hence the reason you go to school and pick up a varied range of skills meaning if you dont get to do what you wanted you actually have a chance of getting another job, or another course to get another job

3. if every pre teen was able to pick their job and start training for it before theyve even gotten to highschool, there would be a hell of a lot of game designers, policemen, firemen etc. and very few engineers, politicians, and other similar jobs which dont seem as fun at age 12
Who said no kids enjoy politics or engeneering, besides, maybe when a child gets older, he may want to become a politician or engeneer and quit his current job. Also, i would make a system where you could stay at school if you want OR you could leave school and take a corce.

i never said no kids do, i said most kids dont, and i would be quite surprised if i was proven wrong, as for your suggested system, i would also be very surprised if any large number of kids would actually choose to go to school if they didnt have to

not that any of that matters since it still fails to take into consideration that the kids arent the ones who have any say in the matter, the parents do

4. proper game design i would imagine would require a fair bit more than a grade 8 completion of mathematics, i recall a couple of years ago you had to at least complete Maths B (the lowest form being maths A, and highest maths C) with a Low achievement to get into the course for game design, now a low achievement doesnt sound like much, but maths b is a very complex subject, and it wouldnt surprise me if the requirements have gone up since then
Ok, i was exadurating, learning game design doesn't take only a few years, but it was just an example, i was saying that this time waisted in school may of been used for things that kids actually want to learn, and helps them.

youre in grade 8 (or possibly 9) you havnt had time to "waste" at school yet, just because everything youre doing now seems pointless doesnt mean it is, and even if it were, thats why when you get to grade 10, you get a choice in the subjects you do, yes you will still be required to do maths and english, but if you want to get into a game design course, then you will choose subjects that relate to that field of education

and yet again you are giving kids a choice, just because you feel that youre mature enough to decide what you do with your life, doesnt mean that you are, and it certainly doesnt mean that the majority of other students your age are

thats another purpose the current education system serves, its there to guide you, give you an idea of what jobs are out there and the kind of skills they require. if you arent doing too well in (for example) maths then game design, engineering, being a pilot are not really in your future
Not necesarily, People who have been crap at subjects at school haved excelled in careers related then that subject.

i doubt that considering the system you hate so much requires you to meet certain requirements before you can take a course in that area

if you fail maths you will not be an engineer, and i am very thankful for that, i like the bridges i drive across to stay up

Anyway, School isn't seeming to guide any of the people in my school, including me, I like no subjects at school, does that mean that i wont like any Career i choose?
Also, if your theory is right, why do asian's parents maker their children do well in maths (and believe me, they do) when they want their children to be a doctor or a lawyer?

i never said anything about liking a subject, its about how well you do in a subject
as for the asian thing, its already been said that being asian does not mean you do well at maths, its a stereotype, any parents (of any race) that want their children to be good at subject likely want their children to succeed no matter what the subject

also to get into medicine and probably law as well, you require a good mark in maths, maths is as much a way of thinking as it is a way of getting an answer

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#54 Jul 12, 2008 7:35 AM

bmah: Member; From: Edmonton AB, Canada; Registered: Dec 19, 2007; Posts: 1,503; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

Not really math for law. And for medicine, you better be crazy at organic chemistry, physics, and math. And your GPA must be insane. I've avoided that faculty altogether.

P.S. Fletch, why don't you put periods and make sentences for once please? >_>

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#55 Jul 12, 2008 7:56 AM

Fletch_Talon: Member; From: Merry Ol' Land of Oz; Registered: May 28, 2008; Posts: 785; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

Because im horribly lazy, seriously, you're lucky I use commas. As ridiculous as it sounds, it would take me around twice as long to type in proper sentences.

Why you ask? Mostly because I have always had a problem with run-on sentences. I have a tendancy to try and fit an entire point into one sentence and don't realise until i re-read it for proofreading purposes.

If you look at my last post, in most cases I finished a sentence by starting a new line.

However, just for you, I have tried to use correct punctuation and slightly better sentence structure for this post; and since you asked so nicely, I will try to remember to do so in the future, it will do me good to start writing correctly again.

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#56 Jul 12, 2008 8:34 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

Also, if your theory is right, why do asian's parents maker their children do well in maths (and believe me, they do) when they want their children to be a doctor or a lawyer?
Nope. That's false. I'm half Korean and math comes naturally for me. Same with many others. It's just easy. But there are still plenty out there who aren't the brightest in math ...
My parents aren't pushing me towards being a doctor or lawyer though I really wouldn't mind. They're really letting me decide my future.

Fair enough! But seriously, there are kids in my class at school who they're parents really really want them to do well in maths

its a good rule if you have a problem with it, please leave this country and move to a country which doesnt have child labour laws

I really dont see what the problem with children working, as long as its earning them good money and they want to work.

not that any of that matters since it still fails to take into consideration that the kids arent the ones who have any say in the matter, the parents do

Well then that good for them smile

youre in grade 8 (or possibly 9) you havnt had time to "waste" at school yet, just because everything youre doing now seems pointless doesnt mean it is, and even if it were, thats why when you get to grade 10, you get a choice in the subjects you do, yes you will still be required to do maths and english, but if you want to get into a game design course, then you will choose subjects that relate to that field of education

Actually, here in Sydney, we have to do English, Maths, Science, Geography, History, PD, PE all in year 9 & 10, we get to choose most (everything except english) in year 11 & 12.
But yeah, i cant really even see how maths will help me in game design, i mean the kind of maths WE learn. Probably about 1% of the things i'll learn in school will probably help me in my game deign couarce, i mean in year 12, i've seen all the subjects, and theres only one subject relating to computers called "computer tech". NOthing relating to game design. And i'm sure in year 12 we're not going to study a topic in maths called "game design, and still thats 1 TOPIC, in YEAR 12!

if you fail maths you will not be an engineer, and i am very thankful for that, i like the bridges i drive across to stay up

Actually, here (it might be different to where you live), it doesn't matter what subjects you excel in, if you excel you can get into any job.
Heres an example:
Say you do georgraphy, science, commerce, VA, Drama, English, Wood Works, Food tech and french, but not maths and you get a very good result of 98. You can Still do engeneering if you want, even though they dont know if your good at maths or not.
Hell you can even flunk at maths and get into engeneering, as long as you do well in other subjects. Also, if you really want to do engeneering, why dont you just take the cource?

i never said anything about liking a subject, its about how well you do in a subject
as for the asian thing, its already been said that being asian does not mean you do well at maths, its a stereotype, any parents (of any race) that want their children to be good at subject likely want their children to succeed no matter what the subject

No but seriously, i talk to all my asian friends at school and they all say that their parents really care about their mark in spacifically maths, they hardly care for any other subject, believe me, its not just a stereotype.

and as i said, just because i suck at maths, doesn't mean i'll suck at game design, there are many branches of maths.

also to get into medicine and probably law as well, you require a good mark in maths, maths is as much a way of thinking as it is a way of getting an answer

Yet anther thing that needs changing......
How Will maths help you in being a lawyer? Maths never helped my mother-a pharmacist.
Terrible....

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#57 Jul 12, 2008 8:39 AM

corky: Member; From: penguin land; Registered: Mar 14, 2008; Posts: 582; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

Honestly, I think that's kind of sad. I'm not very good at maths, and I've gotta get my bachela of tables this year, but my parents arent pushing me to get it really quickly.

Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else.

Will Rogers

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#58 Jul 12, 2008 9:29 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

The Asian kids in my maths class seem to listen to their parents and dont say a word, maybe due to the same reason as the citizens in the emperor's new clothes story.

But the asians dont really seem to realise that what they're learning will hardly help them in later life, they just listen to their parents because they think that they are "all mighty"

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#59 Jul 12, 2008 9:33 AM

Fletch_Talon: Member; From: Merry Ol' Land of Oz; Registered: May 28, 2008; Posts: 785; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

Actually, here in Sydney, we have to do English, Maths, Science, Geography, History, PD, PE all in year 9 & 10, we get to choose most (everything except english) in year 11 & 12.
But yeah, i cant really even see how maths will help me in game design, i mean the kind of maths WE learn. Probably about 1% of the things i'll learn in school will probably help me in my game deign couarce, i mean in year 12, i've seen all the subjects, and theres only one subject relating to computers called "computer tech". NOthing relating to game design. And i'm sure in year 12 we're not going to study a topic in maths called "game design, and still thats 1 TOPIC, in YEAR 12!

Well, in my opinion, by year 10 (or even year 9 for that matter) the only subjects that should be compulsory are maths and english, and possibly science (at least in grade 9). I was never forced to do geography or history, they were covered partially first in a "social studies" type subject, until they changed the system to include it in English lessons.

As for maths helping you in game design, I think you would need a bit of knowledge regarding the programming that goes into a game. Programming, from my experience, involves a fair bit of mathematical knowledge. As i said before, maths is more than just finding an answer, its the process you follow to get to that answer, its about problem solving.

As for the school I went to, we did a small amount of game design using GameMaker, in either grade 9 or 10 (you had a choice). Then in grade 11/12 there was a subject called IPT (information processing technology) where we did some programming and learnt the processes behind programming.
Because contrary to popular belief, there's more to it than typing in the code, it involves a hell of a lot of planning, recording, and note taking to ensure all code is as efficient as possible, and that if something goes wrong, you can figure out what's wrong with it as quickly as possible.

But if you were planning on doing nothing but designing characters, story, and stuff like that, then there's one very clear reason why you have to learn all this other "pointless" information.

If you fail, you need something to fall back on. Unless you plan on finding a job which doesn't require a decent education (i honestly can't think of anything).

As for kids being allowed to work, I can give you a reason that doesn't have to do with children being taken advantage of, or being given jobs which are beyond their level of maturity. Unemployment, its hard enough to find jobs as it is (at least in the place im living it is) now lets add a couple hundred thousand more people who want to work.

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#60 Jul 12, 2008 9:56 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

On the contrary, There are many jobs in Australia that need to be filled, such as nursing. SAying that "Well kids should go to school because they cant work because there is no work available" is a pretty slack thing to say, seriously....

If you fail, you need something to fall back on. Unless you plan on finding a job which doesn't require a decent education (i honestly can't think of anything).

I dont think you're listening to what I'm saying. I'm saying that ALL jobs shouldn't need all these years of school which could possibly be no way in common to that career, or it could be learned much easier without all these other subjects creeping up on you.

Even with this education system, if you dont like your job after going for years for univercity on it and finally passing to do the job, you cant fall back on anything, your stuck.
My mum is a pharmacist and hates her job, she'd like to do something else, but she cant because even though shes gone to school for 13 years, if she quits her job, she'd have to do university all over again. And this is happening even though she has had her 13 years of school.

I know what your saying, that you might go half way through univercity and then find you dont like the job your being lectured on or no good at it, but that happens these days to, School does not ensure that you will like or be good at the job you'll do. no more than my system would anyway.

As for the school I went to, we did a small amount of game design using GameMaker, in either grade 9 or 10 (you had a choice). Then in grade 11/12 there was a subject called IPT (information processing technology) where we did some programming and learnt the processes behind programming.
Because contrary to popular belief, there's more to it than typing in the code, it involves a hell of a lot of planning, recording, and note taking to ensure all code is as efficient as possible, and that if something goes wrong, you can figure out what's wrong with it as quickly as possible.

Well i know we dot do gamemaker at our scool oor any game making, so lets just throw that out the window. Obviously its not on the curriculum, its just an addition your teacher put, or maybe its old or alien curricuulum.
What your saying sounds very far fetched too.

But if you were planning on doing nothing but designing characters, story, and stuff like that, then there's one very clear reason why you have to learn all this other "pointless" information.

Ofcource i wont only do that, but its proven that school does not teach you creativity anyway, it tries, but fails.

Well, in my opinion, by year 10 (or even year 9 for that matter) the only subjects that should be compulsory are maths and english, and possibly science (at least in grade 9). I was never forced to do geography or history, they were covered partially first in a "social studies" type subject, until they changed the system to include it in English lessons.

Well the less subjects compolsory is the better!

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#61 Jul 12, 2008 10:41 AM

Fletch_Talon: Member; From: Merry Ol' Land of Oz; Registered: May 28, 2008; Posts: 785; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

On the contrary, There are many jobs in Australia that need to be filled, such as nursing. SAying that "Well kids should go to school because they cant work because there is no work available" is a pretty slack thing to say, seriously....

I said that was one reason why kids shouldnt work, and i fail to see how it is slack.
Not everyone can be a nurse, it takes more than just education, it also requires a certain personality (at least to be a good nurse). And ill be *bleep* if I'll have teenage or preteen nurses in our hospitals or aged care systems, the idea is ludicrous. It takes maturity to be involved in most jobs, maturity which people who havnt even gone through puberty are extremely lacking in.

If you fail, you need something to fall back on. Unless you plan on finding a job which doesn't require a decent education (i honestly can't think of anything).
I dont think you're listening to what I'm saying. I'm saying that ALL jobs shouldn't need all these years of school which could possibly be no way in common to that career, or it could be learned much easier without all these other subjects creeping up on you.
Even with this education system, if you dont like your job after going for years for univercity on it and finally passing to do the job, you cant fall back on anything, your stuck.

Whether we're talking about the current system, or your suggested system, if you cant succeed or don't enjoy the job you're in, you will have to settle for a lower paying job or go do another course. At least in the current system, youve already done some basic subjects so you'll actually understand what's going no matter the course you end up switching to.

My mum is a pharmacist and hates her job, she'd like to do something else, but she cant because even though shes gone to school for 13 years, if she quits her job, she'd have to do university all over again. And this is happening even though she has had her 13 years of school.

mmhmm. Now think about how many years of school she'd have to do if she hadn't gone through grade 1-12; not only would she have to do everything involved in the new course, but she'd have to learn anything she missed due to not completing normal schooling.

I know what your saying, that you might go half way through univercity and then find you dont like the job your being lectured on or no good at it, but that happens these days to, School does not ensure that you will like or be good at the job you'll do. no more than my system would anyway.

As said above, every course would be longer (and thus probably more expensive) if you had to go through the information you missed out on because you didn't go through normal school.

Current university courses have requirements, game design included, believe it or not, its not because they want to keep you in school for as ling as possible, its due to that high school course having elements in it which will help you understand the aspects of the university course.

As for the school I went to, we did a small amount of game design using GameMaker, in either grade 9 or 10 (you had a choice). Then in grade 11/12 there was a subject called IPT (information processing technology) where we did some programming and learnt the processes behind programming.
Because contrary to popular belief, there's more to it than typing in the code, it involves a hell of a lot of planning, recording, and note taking to ensure all code is as efficient as possible, and that if something goes wrong, you can figure out what's wrong with it as quickly as possible.
Well i know we dot do gamemaker at our scool oor any game making, so lets just throw that out the window. Obviously its not on the curriculum, its just an addition your teacher put, or maybe its old or alien curricuulum.
What your saying sounds very far fetched too.

1. Keep in mind, you're in a different state, and for some ridiculous reason the curriculum and marking methods are different in all the states

2. It was a schoolwide curriculum, I don't believe a school is allowed to teach something that's not given the okay by the Dept of Education

Ofcource i wont only do that, but its proven that school does not teach you creativity anyway, it tries, but fails.

I can agree with that to an extent. Most schools wouldn't, the problem is, there are more professions which require logic and problem solving skills than those that require creativity, even creative professions need a degree of logical thinking, and everyday life is problem solving.

Besides which, creativity, can't be taught, you have it or you don't, what schools should be doing is encouraging creativity, some do, some don't.

Remember that school doesn't just teach career skills, it teaches life skills too.

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#62 Jul 12, 2008 11:23 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

I said that was one reason why kids shouldnt work, and i fail to see how it is slack.

I was saying that just because they cant get work doesn't mean you can just throw them into a place which makes them think they're learning.

Not everyone can be a nurse, it takes more than just education, it also requires a certain personality (at least to be a good nurse). And ill be *bleep* if I'll have teenage or preteen nurses in our hospitals or aged care systems, the idea is ludicrous. It takes maturity to be involved in most jobs, maturity which people who havnt even gone through puberty are extremely lacking in.

It was just an example, but your right on that one.

At least in the current system, youve already done some basic subjects so you'll actually understand what's going no matter the course you end up switching to.

I'm sure that some people have a second choice on jobs, otherwise they could make a system where people can Find out what they want to do, or just get advice from others.

mmhmm. Now think about how many years of school she'd have to do if she hadn't gone through grade 1-12; not only would she have to do everything involved in the new course, but she'd have to learn anything she missed due to not completing normal schooling.

In my system, she wouldn't have to do that, see?

As said above, every course would be longer (and thus probably more expensive) if you had to go through the information you missed out on because you didn't go through normal school.

Well atleast its not Swing and see like it is with schooling today. Maybe it would be cheaper if there weren't so many kids in public education too.

Current university courses have requirements, game design included, believe it or not, its not because they want to keep you in school for as ling as possible, its due to that high school course having elements in it which will help you understand the aspects of the university course.

Everythings may though, cant you just do the cource and thats it.

1. Keep in mind, you're in a different state, and for some ridiculous reason the curriculum and marking methods are different in all the states

Well obviously, your state is a bit more up to standards, but thats not really part of the argument.

2. It was a schoolwide curriculum, I don't believe a school is allowed to teach something that's not given the okay by the Dept of Education

Yep, fair enough.

I can agree with that to an extent. Most schools wouldn't, the problem is, there are more professions which require logic and problem solving skills than those that require creativity, even creative professions need a degree of logical thinking, and everyday life is problem solving.

I dont need maths to decide whether i should go to bankok or chile, its something your mind does naturally for you.

Besides which, creativity, can't be taught, you have it or you don't, what schools should be doing is encouraging creativity, some do, some don't.

Not my school anyway

Remember that school doesn't just teach career skills, it teaches life skills too.

The only subject i find relevent there is PD, and my parents can teach me how smelly, hairy and voilent i get during puberty.

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#63 Jul 13, 2008 6:13 AM

bmah: Member; From: Edmonton AB, Canada; Registered: Dec 19, 2007; Posts: 1,503; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

But the asians dont really seem to realise that what they're learning will hardly help them in later life, they just listen to their parents because they think that they are "all mighty"

*HACK* *HACK*

I stopped right there. What you said couldn't be further from the truth.

It's a stereotype that Asians are insanely good in quantitative studies, such as math and the sciences (although a lot of them are), and you've gone further by making that assumption into a generalization, which I find is grossly unacceptable.

They listen to their parents probably not because they want to be goody-goody children, but because the expectations of parents from Asian cultures are often very high. Asian parents often want them to go into a field with jobs that make a lot of money, and expect no less. A lot of Asian beliefs tie around the idea that you want your children to prosper with a lot of wealth and knowledge, so parents tend to follow that ideology. That's why a lot of Chinese, Japanese, and Indians are scientists, engineers, doctors, you name it. And that's why the children are motivated to not disappoint their parents. I don't see why you are antagonizing parents by labelling them as "high and mighty".

And anything you learn in life is helpful.
"asians dont really seem to realise that what they're learning will hardly help them in later life"

*gigantic facepalm*

P.S. I'm Asian as well. Might as well run for your life. Ahhh!! :0

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#64 Jul 13, 2008 8:17 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

no, i didn't mean asians in general, just some of the asians in my school, but nethertheless, we're getting more and more off track.

BTW, They are usually only those things because they get a high enough UAI.

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#65 Jul 13, 2008 5:53 PM

LoneKnight: Member; From: Scaramogh's Horde; Registered: Oct 10, 2006; Posts: 884; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

bmah wrote:

It's a stereotype that Asians are insanely good in quantitative studies, such as math and the sciences (although a lot of them are), and you've gone further by making that assumption into a generalization, which I find is grossly unacceptable.
They listen to their parents probably not because they want to be goody-goody children, but because the expectations of parents from Asian cultures are often very high. Asian parents often want them to go into a field with jobs that make a lot of money, and expect no less. A lot of Asian beliefs tie around the idea that you want your children to prosper with a lot of wealth and knowledge, so parents tend to follow that ideology. That's why a lot of Chinese, Japanese, and Indians are scientists, engineers, doctors, you name it. And that's why the children are motivated to not disappoint their parents. I don't see why you are antagonizing parents by labelling them as "high and mighty".
And anything you learn in life is helpful.
"asians dont really seem to realise that what they're learning will hardly help them in later life"
*gigantic facepalm*

I totally agree with your statement on how the Asian culture drives students to excel and achieve more, where the more Westernized Culture is to work hard to make something of yourself if you want to. Granted, the western school system does drive students, but it only drives them to fulfill its own requirements, and doesn't require students to go above and beyond the minimum requirements. Students who do go above and beyond are because they want to succeed, not because their society is driving them. That's the difference between the two cultures - it doesn't mean that Asians are stereotypically smarter or dumber.

Karl Ruprecht Kroenen

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#66 Jul 14, 2008 5:41 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

I only try to do well in my tests because otherwise i'd be lectured by my teachers and parents as well as things like my computer being taken away from me, I also want to make sure i go ahead in this stupid system, so i might actually be able to get a decent job. I frankly dont give a *bleep* if i am learning or not, and believe me, i dont enjoy suceeding, i just do it so that no one will annoy me.

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#67 Jul 14, 2008 6:24 AM

Doppelgangergang: Banned; Registered: Feb 15, 2008; Posts: 5,033; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

I only try to do well in my tests because otherwise i'd be lectured by my teachers and parents as well as things like my computer being taken away from me... ...i just do it so that no one will annoy me.

My case too....

I just do it so that people will screw off and leave me in peace. Heck, it feels like getting pushed to a corner with a single way out!

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#68 Jul 14, 2008 6:41 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

Yeah well heres what most people are saying:
The system is working, so you shouldn't be complaining!

Because the System is wayyyyy too stressful and has very unnecesary features in it that just waist time and money. Possibly if the system was better, life would be better.

Believe me, the only reason the kids at my school try to suceed is because their parents push them and they know its their only way they'd get a good job.
I swear, If i have kids, i wont Force them to go to school.

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#69 Jul 14, 2008 6:44 AM

Spyro_Loves_Me: Member; From: Right behind you! AHH!, United; Registered: Jul 03, 2007; Posts: 1,129; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

You only do good on your tests? So you don't have your homework checked?
Lucky you ..
At the end of 2nd semester for our Music Theory class, we had about 800 or 900 points in the end ... It was about 80% homework and 20% tests/quizzes. We can't just do good on tests or else we'd fail miserably. So we had to actually learn it ... That was awful. I hated that class.

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#70 Jul 14, 2008 8:12 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

You only do good on your tests? So you don't have your homework checked?
Lucky you ..
At the end of 2nd semester for our Music Theory class, we had about 800 or 900 points in the end ... It was about 80% homework and 20% tests/quizzes. We can't just do good on tests or else we'd fail miserably. So we had to actually learn it ... That was awful. I hated that class.

No.....
In primary school, i never did my homework, no one really cared (because nobody cares how well you do in primary school, unless you want to get into selective [I did but i didn't go because its too far a way and in fact, i dont give a hell whether i go to selective or not])
In high school, i do all my homework but sometimes i copy off others (not for things like assignments though) or for maths i copy off the back of the book where all the answers are, so if teacher checks she/he thinks i've done it.

I dont get many assignements these days, i got tonnes in year 7 though. But yeah, they're not very strict in Australia (considering how hard we're judged/how hard the work is), we get marked on easy tests.
But i dont really care if we are getting "a valuable education" anyway when we do this easy work, because i dont think easy/hard work will help you anyway.

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#71 Jul 14, 2008 1:36 PM

Doppelgangergang: Banned; Registered: Feb 15, 2008; Posts: 5,033; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

But i dont really care if we are getting "a valuable education" anyway when we do this easy work, because i dont think easy/hard work will help you anyway.

Huh? How'd you say so?

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#72 Jul 15, 2008 3:03 AM

Fletch_Talon: Member; From: Merry Ol' Land of Oz; Registered: May 28, 2008; Posts: 785; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

Yeah well heres what most people are saying:
The system is working, so you shouldn't be complaining!
Because the System is wayyyyy too stressful and has very unnecesary features in it that just waist time and money. Possibly if the system was better, life would be better.

Stress is part of life, life is stressful get used to it, school could be made nice and relaxing, but then when you leave youre screwed. Life is harder than school, so i suggest you quit your whining cuz it only gets worse from here.

Also I'm getting tired of hearing "school is a waste of time and money" from someone who hasn't even left school. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I am questioning your ability to make that judgement.

Believe me, the only reason the kids at my school try to suceed is because their parents push them and they know its their only way they'd get a good job.

Then the kids at your school (unfortunately including yourself it seems) are lazy and, in my opinion, pathetic, it doesn't matter what you do, you should aim to suceed at it, thats a big thing people look for in employees. You aren't going to be doing your dream job straight away, so until then youll have to settle for pushing trolleys or serving customers, you might not like it, but that's not a reason to not do it well.

And i suggest you start trying to suceed, because as stupid as you think it is, you need good marks to get into Uni, including game design.

I swear, If i have kids, i wont Force them to go to school.

You won't have kids for long then, cuz if your wife/girlfriend doesn't leave you and take them with her, then the child services will.

I assume you were aware that its illegal to not send your child to school.

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#73 Jul 15, 2008 4:48 AM

ratchet: Member; From: Sydney, Australia; Registered: Jun 23, 2006; Posts: 5,642; Gems: 0; Website

Re: Debates

And i suggest you start trying to suceed, because as stupid as you think it is, you need good marks to get into Uni, including game design

Dont worry, i am "suceeding", so that i CAN get ahead in this STUPID system.

Stress is part of life, life is stressful get used to it, school could be made nice and relaxing, but then when you leave youre screwed. Life is harder than school, so i suggest you quit your whining cuz it only gets worse from here.

I'm quite aware that theres things alot more stressfull than school, but reguardless, its a waist of time.

Also I'm getting tired of hearing "school is a waste of time and money" from someone who hasn't even left school. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I am questioning your ability to make that judgement.

Just because i havn't seen the outcomes of school for myself, it doesn't mean i'm not alowed to say such things.
I know that Most people dont use much of the stuff they learnt in school in their job and real life.
I know that tax payers pay for Public Education (yes and i know its for other things too, i'm not stupid)

Then the kids at your school (unfortunately including yourself it seems) are lazy and, in my opinion, pathetic, it doesn't matter what you do, you should aim to suceed at it, thats a big thing people look for in employees. You aren't going to be doing your dream job straight away, so until then youll have to settle for pushing trolleys or serving customers, you might not like it, but that's not a reason to not do it well.

Then why not make a system where kids can go straight to things that they want to suceed in, instead of years being spent on subjects that you dont want to learn/need to learn.

You won't have kids for long then, cuz if your wife/girlfriend doesn't leave you and take them with her, then the child services will.
I assume you were aware that its illegal to not send your child to school.

I guess i wont live in Australia then if the government seems to not let people make their own decisions.

Huh? How'd you say so?

Read some of my other posts

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#74 Jul 15, 2008 5:22 AM

bmah: Member; From: Edmonton AB, Canada; Registered: Dec 19, 2007; Posts: 1,503; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

ratchet wrote:

I know that Most people dont use much of the stuff they learnt in school in their job and real life.

I'd SO love to hear evidence for this.

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#75 Jul 15, 2008 5:29 AM

Doppelgangergang: Banned; Registered: Feb 15, 2008; Posts: 5,033; Gems: 0

Re: Debates

bmah wrote:

ratchet wrote:
I know that Most people dont use much of the stuff they learnt in school in their job and real life.
I'd SO love to hear evidence for this.

I know I can pull a few that I don't use, but MUCH? Come on...

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