Debates

Fletch_Talon · Jul 09, 2008 10:03 AM

wee my first topic (as far as i can recall)

No this is not a topic for people to argue in, its a topic for people to state what they value in an argument, behaviour that is or isnt acceptable, and when (if at all) people believe an argument is finished

i would ask that you limit your post to i believe X because Y
or if you do disagree with something then at most phrase arguments as i think X is wrong because Y

anyone who has read either of the 2 topics that were locked due to argument probably has a reasonable idea of my beliefs already but here they are again

- the topic of debate should be what is being debated, not the people who are debating (ie. dont personally attack the people youre arguing with, unless: see further down the list)

- someones opinion based on the point should not be taken as a personal attack (ie. if someone says they dislike something you like, they are not attacking you, if they said "only an idiot would like it" thats an insult)

- every point or counter-point should be followed by a reason, there is no point debating something if you arent backing up your arguments with either proof or reasoning, to not do so is insulting to your opponent, it implies dont respect them enough to explain yourself (ie. X is good because Y, not X is good)

- treat your opponents (in fact, everyone) the way you would like to be treated, chances are pretty high that if you treat your opponent with disrespect they are going to return the favour, this can lead to one or both parties feeling they have been insulted (ie. if you refuse to debate properly thus showing people the respect they deserve then they have every right to tell you to sodd off)

- if you see someone being shown disrespect or insulted etc. then stand up for them and let the other person know their behaviour is disrespectful (you should try to be unbiassed about this and stand up for someone regardless of whether you agree with their argument or not, but this can be hard and i have no doubt im guilty of watching someone i disagree with being completely chewed out, being unbiassed is something nobody can really do 100% successfully)

- try not to gang up on people, sometimes its hard because one side of an argument may be more unpopular than another and thus has fewer supporters, or some supporters of an argument may be unavailable for a period of time (this is more common on the internet) it is not quite fair for one person to have to defend themselves from multiple people all of whom are likely to be giving many different points at once, making it harder and more confusing to defend your position

- if you are going to take part in a debate or defend someone in a debate, be sure to read back a few pages to make sure you arent attempting to defend someone who has done something to incite retaliation (but also be sure to check to make sure they werent in turn retaliating against someone else and so on, insults/disrespect tends to automatically attract more of itself regardless of whether it is justified)

thats all i can think of at the moment, so if anyone feels the need to add something or dispute something (dont be afraid to argue as long as you argue maturely, doesnt mean you have to follow these rules, but please use your common sense) please do, and hopefully this wont get locked

ontels · Jul 09, 2008 4:10 PM

(should be called debates)

as for my argument=I dont think England should adopt the Euro and should stay with the Pound because we need to keep our own herritage and independence evreone in Europe having a single curency would make Europe like one big contray rather than a continent the same way that the EU is forcing laws apon us its like all of Erope has one big parliment and I dont like it.

bmah · Jul 09, 2008 5:29 PM

Yeah, this should be called "debates". A lot of sites have a forum totally dedicated to debates, because it's hard to debate on several topics in a single thread.

Sorry, I can't comment on the topic you've made ontels because I don't really know much about the politics of European currencies. I'll think of a topic though.

What is your position on the China and Tibet issue? Should China treat Tibetans better than they are now, or is the media overemphasizing the issue?

LoneKnight · Jul 09, 2008 8:04 PM

Changed the topic title.

As for the China and Tibet issue? I believe that the world needs to know about it. I have a friend who is in China for a college overseas trip, and there is literally no news coverage of Tibet there. The Chinese are covering the entire thing up, so that their people don't know what atrocities are being committed in Tibet. I think it is good that the rest of the world is seeing what the superpower of China is doing, and are getting a good united front to say that what they are doing is wrong.

Doppelgangergang · Jul 09, 2008 8:08 PM

Unfortunately, nobody cares enough to do so, LK. :s

Phoenix_Flyer · Jul 09, 2008 9:25 PM

I agree with you ontels. The UK isn't part of the continent so why should we give up heritage that has been our trademark for hundreds of years? At the same time though, I don't think we should be completely cut off from Europe, we may not be connected but there's only 26 miles between us and the mainland. We should allow each country its own parliament with its own degree of power and make a parliament for the whole of Europe as well.

DarkMaster · Jul 09, 2008 10:07 PM

sorry for going off topic but i love debates people always shout at each other big_smile

Doppelgangergang · Jul 09, 2008 10:34 PM

(We're conducting a FORMAL debate. Thank you. smile )

dragon protector x · Jul 09, 2008 11:58 PM

.....I have no idea what you guys are talking about

(I wonder how long this will last before flamming starts up that ruined my debate thread.... T_T)

ratchet · Jul 10, 2008 3:19 AM

Lets bring up a new debate Shall we....

The Education system is majorly flawed and is out of date because of numorous reasons including:
1.The eduation system's main reasons are at times not even to educate, most of the time The Education system Is usually used as a Daycare System so that parents can drop there kids at school and not need to worry about them while they are at work. THe education system is also used for keeping kids out of trouble, such as preventing them from going to throw bricks at windows and grafitying trains, things kids do when they're bourd, the schooling system gives kids something to do and goals to achieve which in truth, is just completely blackmail and a waste of time. By saying to them "if you dont do this assignment you wont have a good future" is completely blackmail and untrue, the goverment should use their money to give kids more things to do not MAKE THEM DO THINGS THAT THEY DONT WANT OR NEED TO DO.
2.Most of the things you learn in school do not contribute to real life situations, or even careers, besides, for the things you do need to learn inm carrers, why cant you just learn it in your cource? And things in real life, why dont you just search up on the internet or look in a text book there and then to learn it. Having to learn a whole lot of things that you MIGHT need is pure crap!
3.THe whole subject of Maths is complete rubbish, ok sure you will need the basics such as arithmatic (+-*/) and learning how to read graphs and stuff, but do you REALLY need to learn things like "find the square root of a or Find the area of a triangle. Seriouslty, most of the stuff you learn in class for maths in year 5 onwards (or less) is absolute HOGWASH! also considering that calculators are cheap as these days.
4.Most of the stuff you learn in science is not needed.
5.Geography sometimes becomes very political, and other times its just not needed
6.English is mainly based on getting you to talk and write better, in my opinion, you dont need a big volcabulary, simple words will do as long as people can understand you. Besides, i get lots of words by just watching TV and reading other non-formal things like the posts here on Spyroforum smile
7.You can learn Things Easier and sometimes more if you learn it YOURSELF, i've learnt much about events and things from TV and things like board games, video games and such.
8.Reading should not be forced, the whole point of reading is to recreatinal, how could reading be fun if your reading a 700 page book about Sharlottes love of her life while being bothered by a 60 year old hag saying "Read the book or you'll get a detension".
9.Homework is just pathetic, we already had a 6 hour day, why do we need MORE work, why dont they just make School longer then?What we need and dont need homework for:
Need:
1.For the kids who dont do there work in class which could of EASILY been done in that lesson
2.Studying for a test, but this should be optional
Dont:
1.Work which is given JUST for homework
2.Work which was not supposed to be given to fit the time of that lesson and was made to be homework aswell
3.Assignements, School related works should be stuck to school ONLY!
4.Any othere crap we dont need
10.High school Should start later because we all know the teenage sleeping patter is different to everyone elses, we like to go to sleep later and get up later. getting up at 7 am is REALLY putting a strain on me.

THere, theres 10 reasons for everyone, i'll add some more later.

dragon protector x · Jul 10, 2008 3:22 AM

Oh no.. Ratchet seems like he is in the Debateing mood O.O

Doppelgangergang · Jul 10, 2008 3:29 AM

This is where it goes interesting.

*PING!*

--------------------------------------------------

8.Reading should not be forced, the whole point of reading is to recreatinal, how could reading be fun if your reading a 700 page book about Sharlottes love of her life while being bothered by a 60 year old hag saying "Read the book or you'll get a detension".

In some cases, they could let you choose the book you want to read.

ratchet · Jul 10, 2008 3:31 AM

they do at my school, but:
1.I'm not into reading, and so therefore its not recreational for me
2.Its not really fun when theres teachers getting on your back all the time.

Doppelgangergang · Jul 10, 2008 3:33 AM

1. That depends on you.
2. If your teachers are naggy nazis, then there's a problem.

Both are depending on the person.

Fletch_Talon · Jul 10, 2008 3:44 AM

unfortunately i disagree ratchet, reading a lot is important, whether you enjoy it or not, most of all, reading is the best way to increase your vocabulary, and lessons they do in schools tend to involve finding hidden meanings within the book that could be there due to the author's beliefs

these things help you communicate and interact with people on a higher level in the real world, instead of taking everything someone says at face value, you learn to think about everything they say, you thik about why someone says the things they say

but of course this comes from someone who cant understand how anyone could possibly not enjoy reading so obviously my opinion is biassed

ratchet · Jul 10, 2008 4:03 AM

1.In my opinion, a High volcabulary is not needed, If you can say what you want to say and people can understand it, yout dont need big words.
2.Sorry, But I strongly disagree with you on the hidden meanings thing, i myself dont just look at face value, yet I never read. To me what you are saying about the hidden meaning thing sounds like a whole lot of swing and miss.

Basicly, Reading should not be forced

Doppelgangergang · Jul 10, 2008 4:07 AM

(It's officially 12:00 AM, July 10 in my place. I've been on the forums for 13+ hours total. big_smile )

1. Sorta agree with ratchet. You don't need to be a mini-Volteer who uses large words. You need to be understandable and grammar-right.

2. Huh? :s

Yes, it should not be forced, but not neglected.

ratchet · Jul 10, 2008 4:31 AM

I've neglected reading all my life, you see me going crazy?

Fletch_Talon · Jul 10, 2008 4:31 AM

having a large vocabulary doesnt mean you have to use big words, it means youre more likely to understand words which (big or not) you may come across in life, vocabulary is important because communication is important, vocabulary also helps with synonyms, it can be very irritating talking to someone who uses the same words over and over because they dont know how else to say it

as for whether or not you look at things at face value, you really can't make that judgement about yourself, you are inherently biassed, you learn a hell of a lot from reading but its clear from the way youre speaking about it that you just dont like reading and no matter what the advantages to it you are going to continue believing that reading is the antichrist or something

im so glad that harry potter was written, so many kids that were originally like you, actually started to realise reading can be enjoyable, of course in saying that i dont think Rowling is the most spectacular author in history, but she sure knows how to attract and hold readers attention

Doppelgangergang · Jul 10, 2008 4:38 AM

I didn't like Harry Potter, but loved Eragon and Eldest and waiting for the next.

Anyway, yes, me and Fletch agree. Do not neglect it.

Fletch_Talon · Jul 10, 2008 4:44 AM

Doppelgangergang wrote:

I didn't like Harry Potter, but loved Eragon and Eldest and waiting for the next.
Anyway, yes, me and Fletch agree. Do not neglect it.

i like eragon and eldest too, dear god we agree again

let this be a day for the history books lol wink

if people like stories about dragons btw, i love the dragonlance series and i suggest you all give it a go

start with the chronicles trilogy

DarkMaster · Jul 10, 2008 5:28 AM

Eragon and Eldest are cool i've got the books.....even though i dislike reading........ weird... big_smile

Fletch_Talon · Jul 10, 2008 5:41 AM

i personally think its silly for anyone to say they dislike reading entirely

in most cases there would be something, somewhere that appeals to you, i for one read little else besides fantasy novels, thats not to say i wont read other things but first and foremost im a lover of well written fantasy novels, they interest me in a way that few other genres can

ratchet · Jul 10, 2008 5:57 AM

I dont mind some books, but reading should not be forced. People wil naturally read anyway (except for me, I wont).
But my point wasn't "i should read or not" it was That reading should not be forced and i think we all agree on that.

I've read Eragon and happy potter and have found them extremely boring

bmah · Jul 10, 2008 6:54 AM

LoneKnight wrote:

The Chinese are covering the entire thing up, so that their people don't know what atrocities are being committed in Tibet. I think it is good that the rest of the world is seeing what the superpower of China is doing, and are getting a good united front to say that what they are doing is wrong.

Mind you, you should clarify as to who "the Chinese" are. The government hardly represents the ideologies of the common Chinese people. The idea that most people in China share the same ideology as the communist group that rules the country couldn't be further from the truth, at least today.

Also, a lot of people forget that the standards of the West are vastly different from social standards in the Far East. Throughout history, China's social reputation has been steadily improving a great deal. Despite an enormous improvement, it's still not up to the standards of the West, so the West is still appalled at the political and social conditions. The people in China don't really understand why the West is chasing their tails, since they've seen China as a country that's greatly improving not only economically, but socially as well. And as I said, these social improvements are not enough for the West, so I'm betting that most people here fail to really see why people in China aren't complaining a lot.

My main point here is that the disparities in social standards from China and the West doesn't amount to any kind of resolution. It's one of the reasons why the Chinese people weren't amused when they saw people from all over the world rallying protests against them. They're not going to join the protesters and boycott, overthrow, place sanctions, etc. As a result, the Tibet issue isn't really gaining steam in China, because it's not considered a big issue there anyways. I'm predicting that these protests aren't going to get very far to what people of the West consider the "core" of the problem.

#1 Jul 09, 2008 10:03 AM

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