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#1 May 07, 2018 11:06 PM

FuturisticEggThief
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IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

I think they need to get rid of the shine on his/her face. *Also if this is an inappropriate topic mods please remove.*

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#2 May 07, 2018 11:45 PM

Twingo
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

what


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#3 May 08, 2018 12:18 AM

FuturisticEggThief
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

The Egg Thief in the new trailer has pitch black skin and is obviously a thief, there are some people, including myself, who believe the Reignited* Egg Thief is blackface. I just wanted to create a civil discussion.

*Edit to clarify which version of the Egg Thief I'm talking about.

Last edited by FuturisticEggThief (May 08, 2018 2:08 AM)

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#4 May 08, 2018 1:04 AM

36IStillLikeSpyro36
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

... if i'm being brutally honest? saying "black-colored face + thief = stereotyping black people" comes across to me as WAY more racist than just designing the character that way. how would racism even come into the equation if somebody didn't already automatically associate "black people" with "stealing" in the first place? it's not like they're playing up every black stereotype possible, the egg thief isn't eating watermelons or listening to rap music or what have you, literally the only thing associating the egg thieves with "people of African heritage" is skin color. it's a pretty big leap in logic to go from "black-colored creature" --> "brown-skinned people of African heritage" without - like i said - associating "black people" with "stealing" already.

i mean, the implication in the originals was that the egg thieves' faces were obscured, not literally black-colored, so that is admittedly a very WEIRD decision on their part, but i don't see it as intentionally (even subconsciously) racist at all.

Last edited by 36IStillLikeSpyro36 (May 08, 2018 1:06 AM)


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#5 May 08, 2018 2:03 AM

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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

FuturisticEggThief wrote:

there are some people, including myself, who believe the Egg Thief is blackface.

Don't try to start a problem that never existed.


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#6 May 08, 2018 2:13 AM

FuturisticEggThief
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

@36IStillLikeSpyro36 "i mean, the implication in the originals was that the egg thieves' faces were obscured, not literally black-colored, so that is admittedly a very WEIRD decision on their part, but i don't see it as intentionally (even subconsciously) racist at all." I agree with every word that you said, but if Toys for Bob doesn't want to be spammed with cries of racism, they should at least remove the shine effect on the face. That way it won't look like an unintentional racist stereotype but instead just be a shadowy figure.

@Swaffy What do you mean by "never existed."

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#7 May 08, 2018 3:05 AM

Aquila King
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

If they gave it puffy red lips, then I'd definitely say yeah, it's blackface and totally racist. In this particular case I don't think it's intentional. Though I do see where someone might possibly see it as such, I don't think it's nearly as overtly racist as things like Mr. Popo from Dragon ball Z, or Jinx from Pokémon.

So again, I don't think it's intentional. I just think when it comes to high-def animation, it's difficult to adequately pull off the egg thief's toothy grin and eyes with the rest of their face being shrouded in total darkness. I mean a common complaint I hear about this new trilogy is also the specific shade of purple Spyro has, and how it's not accurate to the originals. But what these people aren't factoring in is things like lighting and shadow effects that didn't exist in the original trilogy. In the originals, the effects team selected exactly what shade and color every individual polygon and pixel was gonna be, and merely adjusted the brightness of each level and area etc. That's it. There weren't any complex lighting effects or physics in the originals. So now think about how the egg thieves hiding their heads under their hoods. What happens to their animation if some light in the game comes beaming at their face? You have to calculate exactly how that's gonna look, especially in today's HD. I think the reason why you see the actual outlines of the face is simply because it's a whole lot easier to digitally animate an actual black face with a grin in a game with light physics, then it is to try to add some sort of effects that are unique to the face of the egg thieves themselves.

So to put simply, I don't think they're done with any sort of racist intent, and they'll likely stay this way for budget reasons. I understand people's concerns, but it could be far worse, and again, I don't think it's in the least bit intentional, so I wouldn't worry about it.


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#8 May 08, 2018 10:29 AM

FuturisticEggThief
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

@Aquila King I see what you mean.

Last edited by FuturisticEggThief (May 08, 2018 10:29 AM)

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#9 May 08, 2018 12:12 PM

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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

Of course it's not racist. 36 and Aquila King have pretty much covered what I probably would have ended up saying better than I would have said it (although I probably wouldn't have been as sympathetic about it), so I'll just say this: these types of nontraversies where every tiny little thing is "problematic" make the word "racism" lose so much power.

Look, when a character in a children's video game is racist because the developers updated the graphics... if an innocuous thing like that is enough to set off people's racist alarms... what does "racism" even mean anymore? Now that the word has evolved to include petty and inconsequential nonsense, it's getting hard to distinguish an actual serious racial issue from manufactured outrage like this. The racist-criers wonder why people don't take them seriously - well, this is why. Actual racism and shadowy egg thieves produce about the same results.

Edit to add this relevant meme:

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wheneverything-is-racist-nothing-is-if-the-abuse-of-this-2911920.png

Last edited by Stormy (May 08, 2018 2:06 PM)


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#10 May 09, 2018 2:11 AM

Aquila King
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

I don't mean to get political here (because I try to avoid politics as much as possible, especially now days), although I will add to what @Stormy said there.

I fully agree that there are tons of cries of faux racism out there atm, but what that amounts to is a 'boy who cried wolf' scenario, where sometimes on rare occasions something ACTUALLY racist does in fact occur, but many ignore it because of all the false accusations of racism out there. In other words, people end up lumping in genuinely racist things with all these fake racist things like this.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I fully understand the frustration that comes from all these petty cries of racism, I do. I just at the same time don't want any genuinely racist things to fall on deaf ears because of it. I don't want people to reach a point where they automatically assume faux racism whenever the accusation of racism is ever raised, just as I don't want the converse to happen as well. I think we should take every accusation seriously, on a case by case basis, and examine it individually for the merits of whether it's truly 'racist' or not.

That may very well be exactly what Stormy was alluding to also, If so I just thought I'd clarify that.


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#11 May 09, 2018 12:31 PM

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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

Yep, that's pretty much what I was getting at. I've definitely felt the instinct to automatically dismiss incidents labelled as racism due to things like this, and I have to fight that every time I hear it to be able to look at each case rationally. I certainly don't want actual racism to go unaddressed, either.

Slightly off-topic political rant:

Hidden text

Of course it doesn't help that I'm apparently not even allowed an opinion according to some people because I'm white, which only adds to that automatic resistance I feel towards the word "racism". Because yeah, "you can't think <x> because you're <skin color>" totally isn't racist at all, you guys.


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#12 May 09, 2018 1:13 PM

raindrop717
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

Wow, I feel observant. I've watched the trailer at least once a day since it dropped, and I haven't once noticed the shine on the thief's face (that's like what, 30+ times? I'm obsessed, I know, lol).

But yeah, having had some experience 3d modeling and working with lighting effects myself, Aquilla King is right. Digital lighting works pretty much like real life lighting. Sometimes certain lights make things appear to be different colors, and you can't control how a light source falls upon individual items very much without it looking unrealistic. I suppose they could change whatever material they used for the thief's head to not be as shiny. The light will probably still hit it at some point though.

Personally, I also always viewed egg thieves as something akin to the black mages in older Final Fantasy games. Whatever they are supposed to be, I never considered them to be actual humans, but that's just me.

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#13 May 10, 2018 11:41 PM

riverhippo
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

Oh yeah its racist.  What year you think this is?  1998?  It's 2018 and everything is racist.  The thief is racist.  The game is racist.  You assume its a thief, so you're racist.  Putting my opinion on a forum about a character in a racist game coming later this year, definitely makes me racist.  My job hired me so my job is racist, and I'm going to eat a McDonald's cheeseburger tonight so all cheeseburgers are racist.

So in all seriousness, I hope TfB doesn't change anything in the trilogy that would deviate from the originals just because it could be taken the wrong way.  For instance, what if they changed or removed Spyro's line in Ripto's Rage when he mistakes Elora for a goat?  And what if the enemies in Tree Tops are all changed altogether because to have it be the same would be offensive to indigenous people.  Or what if they changed the way Spyro judgmentally looks that running gnorc in the title screen of the first game?  If they changed something like that, all it does is vindicate people who actually think there is something racist about the Spyro games, which is ridiculous.

I do think the way they made the thief was strange, as if their faces are actually a shadow and not just hidden in a shroud.  But not once did I think, 'wow toys for bob, racist much?'


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#14 May 11, 2018 12:47 AM

Aquila King
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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

riverhippo wrote:

what if they changed or removed Spyro's line in Ripto's Rage when he mistakes Elora for a goat?  And what if the enemies in Tree Tops are all changed altogether because to have it be the same would be offensive to indigenous people.  Or what if they changed the way Spyro judgmentally looks that running gnorc in the title screen of the first game?

Then I'd say the people who changed that stuff are the real racists, cause I honestly never made those connections before in the slightest. hmm


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#15 May 11, 2018 2:33 AM

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Re: IYO is the Egg Thief in the Reignited Trilogy racist?

Nope never noticed it and nor do I, think it's racist.


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