Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

Latias fan · Jul 15, 2011 4:35 PM

Clock-la wrote:

were friends? thats news to me.

Well until you started to hate me for some reason.

G-Man_93 · Jul 15, 2011 4:36 PM

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Oh, here comes the big hero telling a former troll, former spammer, former impersonator, former Encyclopedia Dramatica user, and frequent YouTube user of 3 years (associated with such names as Unknown283 and the ADM) what "trolling" is.

LOL! And your point is, exactly? You jumped on board the bandwagon and called riverhippo a 'troll' when all he did was simply give an opinion on something that perhaps he likes? Maybe you want to use your expertise on what trolling is BEFORE you make brash judgements on somebody.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Do inform me, oh wise one. I can't WAIT to hear this one. Would it be such a small deal if I cut you up alive and served you for food? No, and since I put all Earthly creatures on the same level, I consider non-humans to have the same worth as humans (oh, I can't wait to hear the reaction I get from this). But thus, to me, doing this to them is like doing it to members of this forum.

Ok, to start off, if you were to cut me up alive and serve me for food, that would be cannibalism so that kind of example is rather disjointed to this topic. HOWEVER, for the sake of argument, I can understand why you'd put that down as an example. Unfortunately, animals do not have even close to the same worth as humans. Wild animals in our world do not have close to the intellect, intelligence or essence that human beings do. They only follow a routine that's encoded right down to their genetic proteins, they don't advance in any way really. Of course, human beings still have some of the 'routines' that wild animals have as part of very basic survival requirements, but we don't follow these 'routines' the way a wild animal would because we've evolved WAY beyond that point of those 'routines'. We forged tools, weapons, and even entire civilizations. Squid evolved to have 8 legs and lions evolved to have claws! Again, big f*****g deal!

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

I don't find people with differing opinions to be trolls, I just find it hard to believe that anybody sincerely thinks animal torture is artistic, especially with the kind of tone his post was written in. and ESPECIALLY declaring it in a thread about animal abuse. And you still think he's not trolling? "That is an outrage!!! $11.99/lb. for that!!!?" Oh, no, I'm sure he's COMPLETELY serious in this reply and doesn't have other intentions. His eyes just skipped over the turtle is all. I'm sure it did. Thanks for teaching me all your wonderful/nonexistent expertise on trolling.

You could have fooled me, sorry. Did riverhippo ever mention animal torture being artistically creative? No, all he said was that sushi was an artistic food. Not the so-called 'torture' on the live animals. Besides what difference would it really make had the squid already been dead because of it not being contained in water than having it cut up live. Forcing the animal to drown above water (and yes that's what it is) or cutting it up live, in your case, is just as cruel. Oh, but well pardon riverhippo for simply showing things that, in some way, do relate to this argument and for popping some SARCASM into the mix. Excuse him for that. Let's have a moment of honesty here: Animals, they are majestic, beautiful, and a sight for all to enjoy. But we must know that ultimately all animals are a resource. We humans are even a resource for the hungry predators of the wild as well.

Not that I'm gonna buy fish in little keychain baggies. As I've said earlier not only is it wrong, but stupid and a waste of resources.

ontels wrote:

I hope G-man realises that not all sushi is served live, in fact I've never even heard of that atrocity until now, sushi is simply raw fish.

Not to be rude, but you may wanna check the videos in riverhippo's comment and try re-reading my comment one more time and you'll hopefully understand his (and my) stance on this topic.

JazzJackrabbit · Jul 15, 2011 4:54 PM

Not all sushi has raw fish. As long as it's vinegar and rice, it's sushi.

G-Man_93 · Jul 15, 2011 4:57 PM

JazzJackrabbit wrote:

Not all sushi has raw fish. As long as it's vinegar and rice, it's sushi.

Hmmm, that is true as well! I've had sushi with raw salmon and it good!:D

Clock-la · Jul 15, 2011 5:22 PM

I wanna have sushi sad

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Jul 15, 2011 6:46 PM

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Last edited by 36IStillLikeSpyro36 (Feb 12, 2015 1:42 AM)

Clock-la · Jul 15, 2011 6:49 PM

Humans are animals.

and i think were more barbaric than the moast wild tiger.

Latias fan · Jul 15, 2011 6:55 PM

Here's my take on this.

Aceedwin · Jul 15, 2011 7:03 PM

Hey, alternative opinion allied to G-man here.

People have circles of responsibility, correct? For instance, you are responsible for your child's welfare, but not for the welfare of every other child in the world, or at least you are less responsible. Given the choice between saving two individuals, one being your brother and one being a stranger, all else being equal, you are expected to save your brother. In my mind, my brother is worth three lives to me. And I myself am worth seven lives. But only to me. To others, I am worth considerably less, and so on. However, all humans are more responsible for other humans more than they are for other animals (provided both beings are unknown to them).

Therefore, to a human, it is perfectly moral to consider a human life to be worth more than an animal life.

Clock-la · Jul 15, 2011 7:10 PM

forever alone :[

riverhippo · Jul 15, 2011 8:00 PM

Has anyone ever eaten yogurt?

Congratulations, you've eaten something that was alive when you ate it.

ontels · Jul 15, 2011 8:33 PM

So is that guy gonna get banned now or what?

Latias fan · Jul 15, 2011 8:38 PM

ontels wrote:

So is that guy gonna get banned now or what?

You mean Ayumi?

ontels · Jul 15, 2011 8:42 PM

I thought the 4th page was the last page lol derpy me.

So the guy at the end of the 4th page. tongue

Latias fan · Jul 15, 2011 8:44 PM

ontels wrote:

I thought the 4th page was the last page lol derpy me.
So the guy at the end of the 4th page.

Yes that...was Ayumi.

G-Man_93 · Jul 15, 2011 9:43 PM

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Oh, now that annoys me. Not even close to the same worth? How?! What about the kids in war-zones who haven't learned anything yet; are they of less worth than you, too, because they don't have your intellect or "essence", whatever the hell that means? Besides, ability is just part of the characteristics of their physical species, which I don't really care about.

I've already mentioned how humans are more valuable than animals on many fronts. And your choice of using kids in war-zones is rather backwards logic and contributes nothing to the topic. When I say essence, I'm talking about the human soul. On one account, some wildlife have greater physical advantage that humans do, but again its us humans who forged entire civilizations giving us much greater advantage to even some of the largest and dangerous predators.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Humans are valuable, not because they've got 73H 73CHN0106Y or abilities that other animals don't have; that strikes me as a bit shallow.

Apologies for sounding 'shallow', but you seem to forget that we didn't always have "73H 73CHN0106Y". All I was trying to get at was that humans have, and still do, go way beyond just simply staying alive. Wild animals however just simply follow the basic routines of survival and know nothing else. Its just simple fact that we were able to figure out how to light a fire, forge tools for making villages, hunting, and eventually agriculture. From agriculture we expanded immensely, building towns and eventually cities. So it actually took us a long time for us to build the technology we have now. So, its not the technology that we have that makes us better, its the fact that we can build the technologies we need or want.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Humans are valuable because they are living creatures, existing with spirits (as opposed to a flashlight or something), but i don't see them as better than any species, and i don't think any species is better than them. No one species is above any other; they're all earthly creatures that have the same world, problems, and life as any other animal here.

Well all life is valuable, but the fact remains that we are at the top of the mountain when it comes to value. Of course, this doesn't mean we don't need nature to survive and prosper as a species, oh no! All I'm getting at when it comes to the 'value' that I mention is, again, the fact that we go beyond simply staying alive. We can manipulate nature in many ways to serve our advantage, and that's FACT. One might say that mankind's ability to manipulate and control nature is putting our entire planet at risk of permanent and irreparable damage but that's another topic altogether.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

The fact that they happened to have desires and abilities that others don't, doesn't make me any more impressed. I don't care about their bodily/mental abilities, they're irrelevant. They are existent souls with valuable lives - this is what matters, this is what determines their worth. And going by this, they are the same as everything else.

Now, you are starting to know what I'm getting at. The fact we have souls, drives us to go beyond simply staying alive. Bodily & Mental ability comes from genetics and proper physical training. Wild animals, namely predators, may have a physical advantage against us, but give any man a spear of a gun and already the tides of the battle are tipped to the human's favor, granted he can use a spear or aim a gun and fight.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

And you say animals follow a simple routine? SO DO HUMANS, in case you couldn't tell. (see lyrics, note there are swears)

I can't really understand Death Metal that well, but what I gather in the intro, it sounds like its trying to create a scenario where humans are cut off from technology. Well, the only way to completely to destroy the human race would be to kill every last one of us. Take away our electricity? We'll find a way to turn it on again! Take our technology? We'll invent new and better technology! Some force of evil wants to destroy us? We'll destroy 'em a million times over first!

Now THAT'S the power of human beings!

ontels · Jul 15, 2011 10:34 PM

I wonder how quick you would be to take that stance if you were not at the top of the food chain.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Jul 15, 2011 11:13 PM

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Last edited by 36IStillLikeSpyro36 (Feb 12, 2015 1:41 AM)

G-Man_93 · Jul 15, 2011 11:19 PM

ontels wrote:

I wonder how quick you would be to take that stance if you were not at the top of the food chain.

Well, mankind as a whole will never sink from the top o' the mountain unless we start killing each other off in a massive war (and quite frankly I believe a huge war is on its way to us). Of course, if I happen to be taking a nature hike somewhere and accidentally go inside wolf territory say for instance then yeah, I'll no longer at the top of the food chain because a pack of wolves will likely surround me and try to eat me alive. Of course, that's why you don't wanna be in the bushes alone where predators can get you as an easy target. And again, I'll mention that humans sought to realize huge potential and advantage to large populations. Why do you think there are 7 billion people on Earth today?

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

I DON'T HAVE A HUMAN SOUL, I've said this before in another thread and since other people already read it, might as well just say it. I have a serious belief (based not on wishful thinking but serious, deep thought/reflection/feeling) that my soul inside isn't human, Human is only the body I live in. so by even bringing that up, you're personally insulting me and the thousands of others that have this belief, because we identify more as something non-human and don't have your "essence".

To say such a thing seems to suggest that you're saying that you're not actually human, which is amongst the weirdest *bleep* I'll ever see or hear out of anybody. But seeing that you base whatever your beliefs may be on "deep, rational thought" then I shall fully apologize for any offense I may have fired at you. That was not my intention I assure you.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

As for everything else, read what i said about what determines worth. I don't care about these civilizations and advantages. "No one species is above any other; they're all earthly creatures that have the same world, problems, and life as any other animal here." inventions are worthless. Abilities are worthless. THEY DON'T MAKE VALUE, OUR PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE MAKES OUR VALUE, AND OUR PLACE IS THE SAME AS ANIMALS'. this is my point.

Sorry, but again I fail to see what your point really is. Abilities are worthless? Ummm...yeah, hi there, the abilities of all species of animal including humans is a part of who WE ARE. It is a part of what ALL LIFE is. So your raeg and butt-hurt here is irrelevant.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

I seriously can't believe the ego trip you're giving yourself here in every reply I'm getting. Why are you trying to defend a superiority complex that's based on the shallow guise of Earthly survival? Look at the bigger picture, beyond the tools and the dirt, at the universe as a whole, and time, space, universes, etc., and tell me how we are any better, more valuable, more important, etc, than other creatures here.

Ego trip? So saying that I have a ego trip is your resort of attempting to gain the upper hand in this debate? Wanna hear something egoistical? How about improving your grammar to more readable levels? Now that is egoistical and shows a superiority complex on my part! And what are you asking me to do when you ask me this: "Look at the bigger picture, beyond the tools and the dirt, at the universe as a whole, and time, space, universes, etc., and tell me how we are any better, more valuable, more important, etc, than other creatures here"? What are you trying to get at? Why would I need to "look at the bigger picture" when the only real bigger picture is with human beings! And as I've said, I value and LOVE ALL LIFE on Earth but I can't simply exclude the fact that we're the only species of animal to have formed and understood and continue to understand more than any other living thing on Earth will ever understand. Now that is the "bigger picture".

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Wait, the fact that we do? So what, animals don't have souls? LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO, guess what, you're an animal, too. Science has proven it, humans are animals! I only say 'animal' instead of 'non-human' here for convenience, so if they don't have souls, neither do you. And if non-humans don't have souls, what am I, since I spiritually believe I'm nonhuman inside?

Hate to 'Stick It To Ya' but we are the only species of animal to actually have souls. And yes I am a Christian. But for the sake of debate let us put the Bible aside (yeah its weird that a Christian, of all people, would say that) and look simply AGAIN at what we are as human beings and compare that with animals. Animals are specifically programmed to follow basic survival instincts coded right down to their genetic protiens, nothing else. Now, I will not deny that humans carry the same codes in their genetics, but we have the ability to do so much more. Can any animal aside from human beings make art like a canvas, music, an opera or other theater performance? No? How about (once again I'll mention this) make massive civilizations to defend their kind from harm? No? Make over 250 different languages to communicate with? No? Well then, I guess humans still come out on top. Now that's the "bigger picture" as far as humans vs. other animal species is concerned. You wanna talk spirituality with me as far as life value is concerned? Make another topic for that!

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

LOL, you think this is death metal.

Uh, yeah it is but that's besides the point.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

Yep, enjoy your power of unimaginable/undeserved ego. and you can even create a mirror with your awesome human hands to stare at yourself in all the time, too!

Once again, your apparent butt-hurt reveals itself saying I have "unimaginable/undeserved ego" because you simply can't handle the facts. And again, I'm not attacking you, if anything, you're attacking ME. Maybe you should create a mirror and take a look at yourself before you judge somebody! One more thing that you mentioned about how humans follow the routine that is mentioned in that song you linked me refers more to the mindless masses that just live 9 to 5 and are compelled to just live their sheltered lives. That sort of mindset can easily be changed if one is compelled to actually be human and provide something big to advance our species. Again, advancement and building bigger and better and the desire for creativity is what make humans, well, human.

JazzJackrabbit · Jul 15, 2011 11:36 PM

We are mammals, more specifically primates, and we do have some animal instincts, but we are far more than animals. Human life is priceless.

I'll use a hypothetical, yet graphic example. I see my own dog, dying a slow, painful death at the claws and teeth of a vicious pit-bull. A few yards away, I see an innocent stranger being held at gunpoint. I see a way to knock out either the murderer, or the pit-bull, but only one. I'd choose to knock out the murderer, because his victim's life is far more important. As much as I love my dog, there's no comparison.

G-Man_93 · Jul 16, 2011 12:44 AM

JazzJackrabbit wrote:

We are mammals, more specifically primates, and we do have some animal instincts, but we are far more than animals. Human life is priceless.
I'll use a hypothetical, yet graphic example. I see my own dog, dying a slow, painful death at the claws and teeth of a vicious pit-bull. A few yards away, I see an innocent stranger being held at gunpoint. I see a way to knock out either the murderer, or the pit-bull, but only one. I'd choose to knock out the murderer, because his victim's life is far more important. As much as I love my dog, there's no comparison.

And this is EXACTLY what I'm trying to get at here. I'd knock the murder senseless and save the victim. I'd feel terrible for the innocent dog but I'd still take the human victim as priority. Why? Because of the morals that not only are ingrained into our minds from birth, but because its also part of the basic survival instinct that all animals, even humans, share.

36IStillLikeSpyro36 · Jul 16, 2011 2:33 AM

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Last edited by 36IStillLikeSpyro36 (Feb 12, 2015 1:40 AM)

G-Man_93 · Jul 16, 2011 2:52 AM

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

You know what? This is getting us nowhere. you're speaking about worth based on earthly things, and I'm looking from an entirely different angle than that, a spiritual/nonphysical one. This is getting us nowhere, because first, it's two different viewpoints, and two, you're not understanding anything I'm saying. *Sigh* It's okay, nobody really does, so it seems. I tried to get this same basic idea across on another site and got 2 out of maybe 10 to actually see what I was getting at. And knowing where this is going (nowhere), it's not worth it to keep going.

You're right. And I sincerely apologize if you happened to take my argument as an attack!:(

36IStillLikeSpyro36 wrote:

But I have to ask one thing...
G-Man_93 wrote:
Hate to 'Stick It To Ya' but we are the only species of animal to actually have souls. And yes I am a Christian. But for the sake of debate let us put the Bible aside (yeah its weird that a Christian, of all people, would say that) and look simply AGAIN at what we are as human beings and compare that with animals.
I'm Christian too, but that's irrelevant to anything taking place here. Plenty of Christians believe animals have souls, and plenty of Christians are even other-kin like I am (other-kin is just what I said earlier where I believe I have an animal soul).
So why did you even bring that up?

I know I said that I'd set the whole Bible thing aside previously, but check Genesis for this. God only breathed into man and woman (Adam and Eve). Though, even as a Christian, I am still skeptical about much of Genesis, I firmly believe God created all life on Earth (and whatever other life exists across our galaxy and universe). But that's a topic that, very unfortunately, is not allowed to be debated at this time!:(

Neotyguy40 · Jul 16, 2011 3:05 AM

So while you guys argue over the difference between man and animals (lolwtfomgbbq?), I am going to, surprisingly, just sit back and watch this debate from a nice distance. I'm also going to laugh*. And with each post you make, I will laugh* harder... And you will know that, somewhere out there, an anonymous person you don't know the face of is laughing* at you guys debating over something so stupid.

Also, in case anyone is surprised, I joined the Pastafarian church.
May FSM bring blessings on you. r'Amen!

By the way, I just bought a nice blue beta fish. His name is Swimmy.

*Figuratively

Swaffy · Jul 16, 2011 3:48 AM

This whole issue is wrapped around the never-ending argument whether
humans were created by God or by some random explosion in space.

If we have a soul - We were created by God and are not animals
If we don't have a soul - We evolved and are animals

You guys will never stop arguing until a mod comes in with a fire extinguisher.

I personally believe we humans are a lot higher than an animal. I believe we
have superiority over the animals, the earth, and what grows on the earth. I
believe we have souls. I believe every one of us was created by God, the
only God, and that every human is different in their own special way.

I'm not arguing, that is my belief. G-Man_93 and Ty are both arguing their
different sides, a.k.a. beliefs, and it will never end.

#51 Jul 15, 2011 4:35 PM

Re: Live Creatures Sold as Keychains

#52 Jul 15, 2011 4:36 PM

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#53 Jul 15, 2011 4:54 PM

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#54 Jul 15, 2011 4:57 PM

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#67 Jul 15, 2011 10:34 PM

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#70 Jul 15, 2011 11:36 PM

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