Religion

Stormy · Aug 30, 2008 1:21 AM

You were saying that religion promotes that. That is what I was calling untrue. I was using my own family as an example.

Fletch_Talon · Aug 30, 2008 1:27 AM

*sigh*

no it is the religions fault

the word "the" would imply that i was referring to one religion in particular, perhaps the one religion that i confirmed does (undeniably) promote it and was talking about in the first place

try reading, its good for you

but frankly most religion does promote prejudice against people of different beliefs, the simple fact that you apparently have to believe in [this god] to get into heaven, if you dont believe in [this god] you either go to hell, or you just dont go to heaven, either way religion promotes punishing those who dont believe what they want you to

Stormy · Aug 30, 2008 1:37 AM

I read, I just misunderstood. My bad.

Fletch_Talon · Aug 30, 2008 2:37 AM

Stormy wrote:

I read, I just misunderstood. My bad.

fair enough, it just looked like you read A Guy's post, without reading the part of my post he was responding to

and sorry i was so snippy, i try really hard to remain objective on these matters and when someone acuses me of making a statement that is completely fabricated i tend to go on the defensive pretty quickly

now something i was thinking of last night (ive had trouble sleeping recently)

the whole religious idea that God requires worship/belief or else you wont go to heaven, i still dont understand, and this is another argument against the notion

i think its a commonly accepted human belief, and im sure its got some basis in christian beliefs too, that you dont demand reward/respect/anything when you do a good deed, you do good deeds because its the right thing to do, and possibly it makes you feel good

now, some may say that, God requires your worship/belief because he created you gave you life and therefore you owe it to him

but does that not go completely against what i mentioned above, now perhaps im wrong and its not a christian belief, or perhaps god, being god, doesnt need to abide by those rules and stuff, however we were supposedly created in his image, which could be taken as more than just being literal self portraits of the big man

Stormy · Aug 30, 2008 2:10 PM

It's not a problem. I've had worse. =P

Yes, I'll admit that I see what you mean, and I've wondered about that too. That is the part about my religion that I struggle with the most; I really hate the idea of hell.

I believe that God at least makes exceptions with the whole heaven/hell thing based on your circumstances in life. Like if you were raised, say, Hindu or something, that's the only religion you know, and you're not likely to just suddenly to convert to Christianity, are you?

But I could be wrong about this. Again, it's the part about my religion that I dislike the most.

Fletch_Talon · Aug 30, 2008 11:33 PM

Stormy wrote:

It's not a problem. I've had worse. =P
Yes, I'll admit that I see what you mean, and I've wondered about that too. That is the part about my religion that I struggle with the most; I really hate the idea of hell.
I believe that God at least makes exceptions with the whole heaven/hell thing based on your circumstances in life. Like if you were raised, say, Hindu or something, that's the only religion you know, and you're not likely to just suddenly to convert to Christianity, are you?
But I could be wrong about this. Again, it's the part about my religion that I dislike the most.

i still dont like that idea... maybe its just because that still involves me getting kicked out of heaven because i made a conscious choice to not follow your religion, it has nothing to do with my upbringing

the worst part is that i actually care, i can apply my human concepts of logic and compassion to god all i want, but theres nothing to say that if god exists that he isnt going to be all like

"haha bet you wish youd believed in me now, sucks to be you"
*pushes big red button activating trapdoor to hell*

though to be honest i dont really think there is an afterlife like that, it implies that our souls will live forever up there, now forever is a very long time and theres only a finite amount of things you can do in any one place (heaven included i would imagine) i dont know, it wouldnt be so bad if the human race kept going for eternity too cuz then id always have new books to read and stuff, but if you go by the bible the human race aint gonna be around forver by any means

and yes i know ive likely horribly misinterpreted whatever the general view of heaven is, but thats why i believe when we die our souls/life force is more likely to be added to a big pool of it which is then also distributed throughout the universe as new life comes inot being

its like reincarnation except its not like

anna dies
anna reborn as fish

more like

anna dies
billy dies
frank dies
bits of anna/billy/frank are mixed up and become the soul of a fish
_______________________________________________________

another type of religious person i hate
those who think that life is pointless unless god exists for example sam sparrow is a singer and these are some of his lyrics

if the fish swam out of the ocean
and grew legs and they started walking
and the apes climbed down from the trees
and grew tall and they started talking

and the stars fell out of the sky
and my tears rolled into the ocean
now i'm looking for a reason why
you even set my world into motion

'cause if you're not really here
then the stars don't even matter
now i'm filled to the top with fear
but it's all just a bunch of matter
'cause if you're not really here
then i don't want to be either
i wanna be next to you

he's singing about god, he's said as much in interviews, why is it our lives cant mean something without god being our creator, why cant our goal be to love each other care for the beautiful world we've been given whether by god or by chance

it trivialises the entire experience that is life, and people with that opinion often also think that god deserves more love than their family/spouse/offspring which sickens me

Adam Thurman · Aug 31, 2008 2:30 AM

II am Christian and like to compare religion to daily life and things like games. I did that here but my results were different than yours. How?

Fletch i am so sorry that we started out being enemy. Please can we be friends and put our differences behind us. Whether or not you agree to be a friend i forgive you despite the fact that you were hard on me and my views.

I had a good night sleep and i feel better. When i wake up the past slowly drifts over me. All i want is to be given a fair chance. I think what makes the most since to what i am trying to say is this song that is by Pillar. Here is the two songs below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRcBwBRrDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFySZYvUqek

Fletch_Talon · Aug 31, 2008 6:55 AM

Adam Thurman wrote:

II am Christian and like to compare religion to daily life and things like games. I did that here but my results were different than yours. How?
Fletch i am so sorry that we started out being enemy. Please can we be friends and put our differences behind us. Whether or not you agree to be a friend i forgive you despite the fact that you were hard on me and my views.
I had a good night sleep and i feel better. When i wake up the past slowly drifts over me. All i want is to be given a fair chance. I think what makes the most since to what i am trying to say is this song that is by Pillar. Here is the two songs below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRcBwBRrDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFySZYvUqek

dude i never wanted to be your enemy, you can get on my nerves, but hell everyone does that for me, family and friends not excluded

we disagree on something who cares, i understand that you mean well, if you were doing something specifically to annoy or insult then we'd have a problem

Adam Thurman · Aug 31, 2008 10:55 AM

Fletch_Talon wrote:

Adam Thurman wrote:
II am Christian and like to compare religion to daily life and things like games. I did that here but my results were different than yours. How?
Fletch i am so sorry that we started out being enemy. Please can we be friends and put our differences behind us. Whether or not you agree to be a friend i forgive you despite the fact that you were hard on me and my views.
I had a good night sleep and i feel better. When i wake up the past slowly drifts over me. All i want is to be given a fair chance. I think what makes the most since to what i am trying to say is this song that is by Pillar. Here is the two songs below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRcBwBRrDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFySZYvUqek
dude i never wanted to be your enemy, you can get on my nerves, but hell everyone does that for me, family and friends not excluded
we disagree on something who cares, i understand that you mean well, if you were doing something specifically to annoy or insult then we'd have a problem

Why exactly is it that you give me such a hard time on my points of view then? My faith, young love, and my art. You gave me a hard time in that. I can see that i am not the only one though. Every now and then someone you reply to takes what you say hard. Is there a specific reason why you had to.

On the thread young love that i made you said "how can i put this lightly. Oh i cant." I cant remember exactly what you said but the point you were trying to get across as if I was some sort of sick person. I am just trying to get things strait. I don't clearly understand why you did that to my thread when it was about a peace of art i did. It was not until i said what it was that everyone who posted understood what the thread was supposed to be. Encouragement for the bewildered and tinder hearted.

Fletch_Talon · Aug 31, 2008 11:42 AM

Adam Thurman wrote:

Why exactly is it that you give me such a hard time on my points of view then? My faith, young love, and my art. You gave me a hard time in that. I can see that i am not the only one though. Every now and then someone you reply to takes what you say hard. Is there a specific reason why you had to.
On the thread young love that i made you said "how can i put this lightly. Oh i cant." I cant remember exactly what you said but the point you were trying to get across as if I was some sort of sick person. I am just trying to get things strait. I don't clearly understand why you did that to my thread when it was about a peace of art i did. It was not until i said what it was that everyone who posted understood what the thread was supposed to be. Encouragement for the bewildered and tinder hearted.

and the cycle continues

i didnt give you a hard time due to your faith, it was you pushing your faith on others that i disagreed with

i questioned you regarding your faith and that would likely have remained a civil discussion, but you insisted on ending everything with "lets pray together" or "if you arent christian what are you?" ive already explained why this is offensive im not going to get into it again here

your thread was not about a piece of art, your thread was excusing the actions of 2 minors who got involved in a position of a sexual nature, hence the reason i stated quite clearly, that if you dont see anything wrong with that then you are a sick person

Stormy · Aug 31, 2008 2:18 PM

Which is the truth. I would consider any "sexual activity" on forums to be pretty sick indeed. We can't have it here. How can you possibly defend that?

Adam Thurman · Aug 31, 2008 6:44 PM

which is the truth. I would consider any "sexual activity" on forums to be pretty sick indeed. We can't have it here. How can you possibly defend that?

Technically I never said that. The Thread if you did not look at the Art i did than your being hypocritical. Excuse me for being bisque but you hit me hard so many times i cant hold in these words anymore. You are on P-e-r-v to think that i meant that i supported them for their decision. I wanted them to feel comfortable with dating at a young age. Get it striate critic. I wont say it again because this is going to be the last time i respond to someone like you.

DETAILS BELOW

Fletch I just want to prepare you for this, so i will tell you what i am going to do. The most mature thing that me and my friends agreed on is to ignore you. So please don't try to contradict me for i will not reply to you unless you ask a religious question that you want me to answer other than that i will not reply to anything you say. Aceibo if your paying attention same to you. Not going to reply to you. I am sure judging you by your age that you will be mature also and respect my wishes.

Ps; When i say friends i mean outside this forum. The ones at my church are very insightful. I did not tell them anything about what happened between the couple on this forum but i told them about the religious debate.

Stormy · Aug 31, 2008 8:17 PM

Technically I never said that. The Thread if you did not look at the Art i did than your being hypocritical. Excuse me for being bisque but you hit me hard so many times i cant hold in these words anymore. You are on P-e-r-v to think that i meant that i supported them for their decision. I wanted them to feel comfortable with dating at a young age. Get it striate critic. I wont say it again because this is going to be the last time i respond to someone like you.

T__T

Excuse me for misunderstanding, but that's sure what that thread seemed like to me. I recall you mentioning something about "experimenting"; even if you didn't say it directly, I think it's a safe assumption by both myself and Fletch that you were supporting that. Again, sorry for misunderstanding you. Wow. -__-

Here, these are quotes from you that suggested that to me:

I think intimacy is better expressed at that age because you would be free spirited and that you can trust the opposite gender as some one you could trust.

I don't think it is a good idea for us to make them so down on them just because they were planning to do something explore.

Understandable? I think so.

Now how about we stop bringing this up? It's not really an issue anymore....

Adam Thurman · Aug 31, 2008 11:51 PM

What the dictionary goes by is that intimacy is a close, familiar, and usually affectionate or loving personal relationship with another person. What your little odd mind goes toward is the act. Not at all what i was referring to. I want to point out that Fletch was the one who turned my words upside down. You seeme to of taken his words to be true when they were completely false. I hate copying out of a dictionary but it was necessary. I forgive you for misunderstanding me and i think it is normal for that to happen. All i want is for everyone her to understand what i meant. Not only is English a very hard language to learn but a controversial subject at that.

When i said "I don't think it is a good idea for us to make them so down on them just because they were planning to do something explore" I meant that i think it is normal to talk about how they feel toward each other as long as it does not lead to the act of intimacy. I think it is even healthy for kids who are in their early teens to express intimacy as long as it does not lead toward the act of intimacy.

Do you get what i am saying? I just want this to be understood because that is my style of writing and i can go in depth in my descriptions. I did not know that using these words that are explicit and heavily descriptive would make a flame war. I am sorry if i caused trouble. I just want every one to understand and take me for who I am and not what I'm not. Using slang and paraphrased words is not my cup of tea at all.

Aicebo · Sep 01, 2008 12:09 AM

I don't know why you're making such a big deal.

I have some feeling for someone online. I shouldn't, I know, but it's there. But I don't need to announce it to the world and make a huge deal out of it.

It's over. Just drop the subject of the incident between the two.

Adam Thurman · Sep 01, 2008 12:42 AM

I will let it go if you can convince Fletch not to turn my words against me. I am a real persion after all. I don't know about you but i hate persuasive essays.

I can totally let it go but if Fletch has to make things difficult then it wont be that easy. You are trying to get a cat and a dog to play nicely together. We will have to see how to resolve this. If any one can convince me and Fletch to have a tea party it is you guys. You understand him a lot better than i do and Razz understands me and so on and so forth.

I'll make this simple. Pm that guy and set this up for us to sign the peace treaty and we will go from there. Like i said I hate persuasive essays. I can't even persuade my mom to try sea food and thats just sad.

A Guy · Sep 01, 2008 12:48 AM

Peace treaty? With Fletch?

/me is killing himself laughing

Adam Thurman · Sep 01, 2008 1:07 AM

Yes he is, good old Fletch and our shiny pens.

INK & NIBS

Aceibo is at work at getting everything ready. Assuming he has read read the post i made above yours. Everybody wins or is that a fantasy that the world has written. Good old mother earth has lent her hand in our confused minds that we call personality.

Fletch_Talon · Sep 01, 2008 2:29 AM

A Guy wrote:

Peace treaty? With Fletch?
/me is killing himself laughing

A Guy, you make me laugh, i like that big_smile

id usually post here about how Adam's wrong

maybe id throw a quote or 2 in there like this

You are on P-e-r-v to think that i meant that i supported them for their decision. I wanted them to feel comfortable with dating at a young age. Get it striate critic. I wont say it again because this is going to be the last time i respond to someone like you.

and respond as if the poster is an idiot, for example

why dont you try reading you clod, nobody was punishing them or berrating them for being in a "boyfriend/girlfriend" relationship, however their actions have proven quite clearly that they are in no way ready for a relationship (though it also shows that they think they are)

then another quote like

When i said "I don't think it is a good idea for us to make them so down on them just because they were planning to do something explore" I meant that i think it is normal to talk about how they feel toward each other as long as it does not lead to the act of intimacy.

to which i directly insult the poster by calling him for example, an ignorant moron

then id state reasons along the lines of, it is not normal for 2 people 3 years below the Australian age of consent (16 which is still kinda ridiculous) to be talking about having sex

if this had been a real life relationship rather than an internet relationship, what would have been there to stop them "practicing what they preach" to put it... kinda nicely i guess

then id go on to talk about all the different points that have been made, and how im not the only one who saw your posts as excusing the behaviour of the individualls in question, and saw little to no, evidence of it being a thread that was actually about an artwork

which by the way i complimented but i guess its easy to only pick out the bad posts made by people (i do it all the time)

anyway... i would post all of that, but that would be silly, since youre supposedly ignoring me and theres no way in hell (or any other really bad place) that im signing a "peace treaty" which not only sounds like the most childish concept ive heard of in a while, but would also likely require me to not comment on any post you make that i disagree with

Stormy · Sep 01, 2008 2:50 AM

Aicebo wrote:

I don't know why you're making such a big deal.
I have some feeling for someone online. I shouldn't, I know, but it's there. But I don't need to announce it to the world and make a huge deal out of it.
It's over. Just drop the subject of the incident between the two.

Amen to this post. All six lines of it. Thank you, oh great Aicebot. =3

This isn't even what the topic is about anyway....

Kamineko · Sep 01, 2008 2:57 AM

Religion? Sex? Arguing about those things?

You guys sound like a tabloid newspaper or something. I have no idea what's going on here but all I can say is something like "hey guys sex is kind of meant to be a private thing let's not discuss two people having it/wanting to have it too much here (unless the sexual act in question is illegal and meant to arouse some form of discussion based on the sexual laws in question [lol, arouse])."

So yeah... back to religion.

FUN FACT: Church of Satan doesn't believe in Satan.

GO FIGURE?

raven · Sep 01, 2008 3:21 AM

Atresac wrote:

FUN FACT: Church of Satan doesn't believe in Satan.
GO FIGURE?

Hmm, I don't know. The Church of Satan is dedicated to the acceptance of humankind's physical/bodily self, and self-preservation. But I'm not sure where the nameword 'Satan' comes into it.
Relating to that religion, how am I meant to interpret this 'Satanic rule of the Earth'?

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

References: link 1 and link 2

'Destroying' someone seems a little extreme, just because he/she bothered you repeatedly, lol.

(note: I'm not bashing the Church of Satan, I'm just wondering what that means).

Kamineko · Sep 01, 2008 3:32 AM

raven wrote:

Atresac wrote:
FUN FACT: Church of Satan doesn't believe in Satan.
GO FIGURE?
Hmm, I don't know. The Church of Satan is dedicated to the acceptance of humankind's physical/bodily self, and self-preservation. But I'm not sure where the nameword 'Satan' comes into it.
Relating to that religion, how am I meant to interpret this 'Satanic rule of the Earth'?
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him
References: link 1 and link 2
'Destroying' someone seems a little extreme, just because he/she bothered you repeatedly, lol.
(note: I'm not bashing the Church of Satan, I'm just wondering what that means).

I've actually read the Satanic Bible (interesting read actually) and the whole "Satan" thing come into play because they *say* it's like the opposite of christianity. The equivalent of the 10 commandments are all reversals of common christian rules like "love to those who deserve it, don't waste it on ingrates" and "vengeance instead of turning the other cheek" etc. The author kind of argues that modern organized religions tend to demonize man in its most natural form, turning all of our common instincts and desires into a bad thing. Satanism embraces pretty much "doing what feels good (as long as you don't hurt anybody)".

And honestly I'm just as confused as you are with that one. I've seen it before and the only way I can interpret it to follow with the rest of what he says is that destroy is meant in the sense that people will use like "oh that guy said this, i'm gonna destroy him".

Fletch_Talon · Sep 01, 2008 8:38 AM

sorry for my outburst before, its kinda annoying when for once an argument was not [entirely] started by me and yet i still get the bad guy label (it comes with a curly black moustache and an awesome laugh)

i still have nothing against you adam, i very much disagree with your opinions and in some cases your actions, but some of the biggest fights ive had have been with my own mother, doesnt mean i dont love her

thats not to say i love you... just realise that me disagreeing and arguing with you do not indicate any hatred or contempt for you

to be honest id be more likely to not argue with you if i didnt respect you at all

Adam Thurman · Sep 01, 2008 8:27 PM

Why is it that the church of Satan believe in respecting others and then when some one is against them they act violent. Some of my friends are goth and they act like the normal and when they see me trying to be Christian goth they make it hard for me.

You think that your the only one that is giving me a hard time and tell me to let it go. My school won't let it go. I need some where to ventilate. I come here and all you guys can think of doing is making it hard for me. I cant even pray without wondering what I look like. I usually write out my prayers but now I just cant seem to get the pen to move.

For all of you who are wondering, I was born in Missouri and was raised to speak English so the only thing that I am having trouble with is typing. Free writing is not that easy on here and I don't look for errors except for the ones that the spell check picks up. Then I cut and paste it on the forum.

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