Welcome to Spyro the Dragon Forums!

You are not logged in.

#1 Jun 18, 2014 11:30 PM

Stormy
Administrator
Award: Admin
From: Illinois
Registered: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 10,237
Gems: 601
Birthday: 3 April
Gender: Female
Website

Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

(Previous thread with team list and other info)

Here's a list of what we've decided so far:

  • The game will be a sidescrolling platformer

  • It will be made using HTML5 and Javascript

  • There will be one homeworld and three levels

  • Abilities will be flame, charge, jump, and glide

I'm going to start making these threads every week or so. If you've signed up for a team, make sure you read them so you know what you're responsible for this week! I'll cross out the tasks in this post as they get completed. Any tasks assigned in these threads should ideally be done at the end of the week. If that's not going to be possible, let me know ASAP so I can adjust.

Writing is the most important part of this stage - without a premise, the other teams can do much of anything. That's why a lot of the teams don't have much to do right now.

Current tasks:
Manager: Set up Github. Review materials submitted by teams at the end of the week.
Writing: Decide on and write a summary of the story. Should include plot/objectives, villain, and other characters.
Programming: Decide amongst yourselves if you would prefer a grid-based or a polygon-based system.
Art: Decide on how you want Spyro to look, and start working on a sprite.
Level Design: Nothing yet.
Sound: Start on some of the sounds for the abilities we've decided on (flame, charge, etc). Not urgent.
Music: Nothing yet. (I assume you'd want to know a bit about what the levels are going to look like before you make music for them.)
QA: Nothing yet.


Come watch me play dance games and other stuff on Twitch!

Offline

#2 Jun 19, 2014 1:15 AM

RadSpyro
Member
From: Avalar (UK)
Registered: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 515
Gems: 0
Age: 30 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Writing is the most important part of this stage - without a premise, the other teams can do much of anything. That's why a lot of the teams don't have much to do right now.
That's just what I thought. RIGHT THEN.

We start out in the Artisans world, with some random talk between Spyro and Nestor. Suddenly, a new villain (which we can all decide upon later) appears, with a small gem in his hands. More talk (read: taunting) and suddenly, blam, a bright light reaches across the area and Nestor attacks Spyro and Sparx.

The pair have no choice but to retreat to level 1 during the day, where they find out that several other dragons have also become hypnotized. At the end of the level, Spyro finds Gnasty Gnorc, who was being kept prisoner in a cage (creative ideas please because I got nothin'). Gnasty knows the villain, and wishes to get his revenge on him for trapping him like that. But first, he wants Spyro's help in saving some of his other imprisoned Gnorcs.

Return to homeworld, where the sun has now set. Off to level 2. More dragons to save. At the end of this level, a whole gang of Gnorcs are freed, and they immediately agree to help Spyro. They inform him where they saw Nestor and the baddie head off to, and off we go.

Return to homeworld and would ya believe it, nightfall. Level 3 commences. At the very end of this level (and after saving some more dragons) we meet up with Nestor, who is still under the main villain's control. There's two possibilities -

1. Spyro can't seem to snap the elder out of his trance. Gnasty steals the gem for his own gain whilst the villain is focused on Spyro, but the Gnorcs turn on him and break the gem, releasing Nestor from his trance at last (Thank you for releasing me, Spyro - Again.).
2. Gnasty follows through to his word (I'm not fond of this, since I imagine he still wants revenge on Spyro too).

At the end, we either see Spyro talking to the Gnorcs (and Nestor) back in the homeworld, or we see him in Dragon Shores, either way speaking to them about running the place permanently.

How does that sound for a basic premise? At the end of each level is a boss, but perhaps Nestor could have a Phase 2 of some sort? As for the levels, some new ones based on the Artisans was what I was thinking. Perhaps all of us artists could decide on 3 unique levels. I'm not sure how our programmers feel about the changing backdrops in the homeworld once a level has been completed (or anything else for that matter). I don't know much in the way for programming games, I'm better suited for HTML.

I also apologise if there are any mistakes in what I've just typed - It's past 2am and I shouldn't be allowed to type at this time of the night.


DeviantArt
Tumblr
Visit me and stuff.

Offline

#3 Jun 19, 2014 1:56 AM

Breaking Bad
Member
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Dec 15, 2012
Posts: 250
Gems: 0
Birthday: 20 January
Age: 21 years old
Gender: Male

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

No point in 3 guys focusing on one task, so I guess we could knock out multiple sprites.

I'm starting on making a Spyro and Sparx sprite, since I'm the only guy who only does art and nothing else.

Sheep, I suppose you could make a sheep sprite. (I know you're focused on programming, so it's not necessary.)

RadSpyro, I guess you could work on an alternative Spyro sprite, then Stormy can decide which one is better.


This fine with you Stormy?


axr53.png

Spyrorocks wrote:

DDR, so your sis hogs all the games? LOL

Skype: BigMeth007, feel free to add me.

Offline

#4 Jun 19, 2014 7:52 AM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Well Stormy that's a fine format. I'd recommend posting the newest demo under QA for now, since we do have one and it will only get better. We do have 6! QA, and it gives them something of a benchmark.

Abilities will be flame, charge, jump, and glide

These will do for basics, and while our meeting on this matter only included 3 of 19 members, I think that is core Spyro enough there isn't much question. Perhaps we will see opportunities for more abilities, such as fireballs, breath types, or head bash, when and if the time comes. Lets not rule out the idea to expand at a later date.

Something to consider is this: even more core to spyro then platforming, is enemy interaction. In other words dealing with enemies the right way. As a sidescroller we are heavily limited, and it may take some different thinking. For example in the playstation game it takes some skill to line up a charge attack, or even a flame breath, but in a sidescroller, you will always charge right into them without fail. So we need to think about altered or new abilities and new enemy behaviors, such as enemies that jump, bounce or teleport, and perhaps a flame breath that is slow to spread out, or a charge attack gets stronger with distance but gives monsters more time to avoid it if started from further away. Creative ways to express that enemy interaction gameplay, that makes Spyro special.

I'm going to start making these threads every week or so. If you've signed up for a team, make sure you read them so you know what you're responsible for this week! I'll cross out the tasks in this post as they get completed. Any tasks assigned in these threads should ideally be done at the end of the week. If that's not going to be possible, let me know ASAP so I can adjust.

To everyone: In addition please show up to at least 1 bi-weekly meeting so that your opinion can be heard. They are currently Tuesday at 1PM PST, 4PM EST and Friday 10AM PST 1PM EST.
If neither of these times work for you let me know. Friday could be moved to Saturday. Tuesday seems to work for a lot of people at that time.


As far as writing holding things up, they shouldn't. We don't even know if there will or should be NPCs. There may be no story. We need to see what the programmers can do, otherwise we are writing an essay without knowing how much ink is in the bottle, or how much paper we get.

As far as writing the big choice that has been made so far is that it will atleast partly take part in the Artisan Homeworld, so we need to create a tile set or polygon texture for that theme. So that frees up the programmers and artists a bit. The artists will need to know dimensions from the programmers. The programmers are also free to begin implementing Spyro's abilities, so really there's not a lot on the story end holding them back, and there should be more than plenty to do at this point.

With my feelings on these matters expressed, I am now happy to take a look at RadSpyro's story, and add to it.

*RadSpyro's Script*

What happens to a baby dragon when all the adult dragons in the realms, or even just one realm, attack him? I'll tell you: Spyro jerky. Spyro was special in the first game because he was too small to be targeted by the crystal statue magic of Gnasty's mace. He is still a baby of his species. I do think Dragons make good bosses though.

Practically speaking if we have one dragon boss per world, how this story goes depends a lot on how many worlds we have. If there is only one world in the whole game, that means only one hypnotized dragon. At that point it may be good to just have a dragon be a villain.

I think we should just have a villain dragon at this time. And if the game expands to more worlds, then we can re-examine multiple dragon bosses, and the story to best fit it.

An example of a 1 world take on the story could be this: Evil dragon comes. Adult dragons try to stop him. Adult dragons gets sealed in giant crimson gem. Evil dragon seals himself in boss level. 80% gems needed to open. That reminds me: gems are in Spyro 1 because the minions were sloppy when stealing them... why are they scattered now? Or are there no gems? Or something else?

Last edited by GameBoyBlue (Jun 19, 2014 11:42 AM)

Offline

#5 Jun 19, 2014 12:02 PM

RadSpyro
Member
From: Avalar (UK)
Registered: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 515
Gems: 0
Age: 30 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

GameBoyBlue wrote:

As far as writing holding things up, they shouldn't. We don't even know if there will or should be NPCs. There may be no story. We need to see what the programmers can do, otherwise we are writing an essay without knowing how much ink is in the bottle, or how much paper we get.

I have to disagree here. I've been involved with the production of several fangames, and all of them have flowed so much better once a story has been established. A story tends to give any game, fan or not, a massive boost in interestingness since more people will be intrigued to find out what happens at the end.

GameBoyBlue wrote:

What happens to a baby dragon when all the adult dragons in the realms, or even just one realm, attack him? I'll tell you: Spyro jerky. Spyro was special in the first game because he was too small to be targeted by the crystal statue magic of Gnasty's mace. He is still a baby of his species. I do think Dragons make good bosses though.

Practically speaking if we have one dragon boss per world, how this story goes depends a lot on how many worlds we have. If there is only one world in the whole game, that means only one hypnotized dragon. At that point it may be good to just have a dragon be a villain.

I think we should just have a villain dragon at this time. And if the game expands to more worlds, then we can re-examine multiple dragon bosses, and the story to best fit it.
An example of a 1 world take on the story could be this: Evil dragon comes. Adult dragons try to stop him. Adult dragons gets sealed in giant crimson gem. Evil dragon seals himself in boss level. 80% gems needed to open. That reminds me: gems are in Spyro 1 because the minions were sloppy when stealing them... why are they scattered now? Or are there no gems? Or something else?

Ah, but that's why Spyro only takes a few hits to be defeated - I imagine most of the dragon enemies would require more than that, and a boss would be looking at ideally about 10 or so hits.

Generally I meant that there were dragons scattered all through the world, and one dragon who just happens to be a bit stronger than the rest towards the end.

In terms of gems, I would imagine they were stolen by the dragons to give to their new overlord. When defeating a dragon in a level, I pictured that you automatically gained some, as well as locating them in a level. In fact, quite possibly perhaps, rather than allowing you to re-enter a world, once you've rescued all dragons and obtained all gems maybe it could lead to a special 100% completion? I'm assuming that this game won't take players hours upon hours to complete, so it might not be necessary to travel back to worlds.


But for now, let's see what our programmers have to say. How do you all feel about some of these things? Would they be hard to code? smile


DeviantArt
Tumblr
Visit me and stuff.

Offline

#6 Jun 19, 2014 12:11 PM

CuttingEdge
Member
From: Straight Outta Poland
Registered: May 04, 2014
Posts: 1,034
Gems: -19
Birthday: 11 November
Age: 19 years old
Gender: Male

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

If i got FLStudio Producer Edition then i could've tried to made sfx for effects ._.


Never ask what I'd do for a klondike bar. No one wants to go down that road.

Offline

#7 Jun 19, 2014 12:30 PM

Sheep
Member
Award: Skateboard Contest Winner
From: Norway
Registered: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 983
Gems: 0
Birthday: 20 January
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

(This was written after RadSpyro's first post in this thread, but either spyroforum, my phone or my internet connection refused to let me post it at the time)

Hihi, I love how the story's turning out! big_smile big_smile
The villain could be Ripto:
Gnasty and Ripto have been scheeming together, as the epilogue of Spyro 3 suggested. With each other's help, they manage to aquire that gem to hypnotize the dragons. But Ripto turns on Gnasty and locks him up. (Gnasty hanging  randomly in a cage looks great how i picture it smile ). When  Ripto appears before Spyro and Nestor, he is wearing a hooded  cloak to hide his identity. When Spyro gets to the cage, Gnasty tells his story and reveals the villain, and promises to help Spyro and not seek revenge on him. Possibly, he also teaches Spyro how to de-hypnotize the dragons. When they catch up with Ripto, 1. out of your possibilities is the one that happens, and Gnasty tries to get his revenge on both Spyro and Ripto.

Changing to night and different backdrops shouldn't be a problem.

Edit:

Breaking Bad wrote:

No point in 3 guys focusing on one task, so I guess we could knock out multiple sprites.
I'm starting on making a Spyro and Sparx sprite, since I'm the only guy who only does art and nothing else.
Sheep, I suppose you could make a sheep sprite. (I know you're focused on programming, so it's not necessary.)
RadSpyro, I guess you could work on an alternative Spyro sprite, then Stormy can decide which one is better.(...)

What if all the artists each make one(or more) mockup/concept images of how they imagine the look of the game, both objects/sprites and terrain, but not very polished, and perhaps a smaller, more refined thing, like a single sprite or something to show how the rest would look with more time put into it. Then we eventually go with the art/style direction that everyone feel comfortable with and are able to work with?

Edit:
Here's a polygon based concept image:
polygonconcept2.png
I'll try to make a grid based one later.

Last edited by Sheep (Jun 19, 2014 5:44 PM)

Offline

#8 Jun 19, 2014 8:43 PM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Sheep wrote:

polygonconcept2.png

Could Spyro charge up and down slopes aswell as flat surfaces? Or would slopes prevent it? Can you make a polygon based update of the demo, where Spyro can walk on the sloped surfaces? Gorgeous art by the way.

RadSpyro wrote:

Ah, but that's why Spyro only takes a few hits to be defeated - I imagine most of the dragon enemies would require more than that, and a boss would be looking at ideally about 10 or so hits.

Generally I meant that there were dragons scattered all through the world, and one dragon who just happens to be a bit stronger than the rest towards the end.

...

But for now, let's see what our programmers have to say. How do you all feel about some of these things? Would they be hard to code? smile

Well I am going to share some thoughts, based not only on my own position as a writer in this group, but someone who designs games aswell, and loves the original Spyro for what it was and what they tried to and succeeded in accomplishing. You say '10 hits' to defeat a dragon boss. Think of bosses in Spyro 1. I know later games gave bosses health bars, but Spyro 1 did not. And while later Spyro games bosses were more cinematic and dramatic, Spyro 1 bosses required more actual skill. Yes some bosses in later were 'harder' but that is not the same thing as skill. It is harder to dig a hole with a spoon than a shovel, though I wouldn't say it takes more skill.

To illustrate my point, take Dr. Shemp. No health bar of course, simply flame him in the back 3 times to win. Though he has a staff he chases you with and swings at you sideways with. Each time you flame him, he speeds up and swings his staff in new patterns. This is SKILL based boss.

Adult Dragons are stronger than Dr. Shemp, and he is one of the more tricky bosses in Spyro, especially for new players. Can you see why I think we'd only have Adult Dragons as a boss? Rather than "scattered all through the world"? If they are used this way in the levels, then you either have boss like enemies flying around the world(I remind you adult dragons can fly), or you make them weaker than a boss but then they arn't really DRAGONS. So I suggest only one dragon boss, if there is only one world, and a story to fit that, such as the one suggested in my previous post.
th_cat_emoticon-10.gif

Last edited by GameBoyBlue (Jun 19, 2014 10:18 PM)

Offline

#9 Jun 19, 2014 9:07 PM

Sheep
Member
Award: Skateboard Contest Winner
From: Norway
Registered: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 983
Gems: 0
Birthday: 20 January
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

GameBoyBlue wrote:

Could Spyro charge up and down slopes aswell as flat surfaces? Or would slopes prevent it? Can you make a polygon based update of the demo, where Spyro can walk on the sloped surfaces?

Charging: Yes, that was the idea smile
Polygon based update: Yes, but it will take some time.

Offline

#10 Jun 19, 2014 11:10 PM

RadSpyro
Member
From: Avalar (UK)
Registered: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 515
Gems: 0
Age: 30 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

@Sheep - That sounds like a great idea, both story and concept art! If Breaking Bad is okay with this too, I'll get started right away smile

GameBoyBlue wrote:

Could Spyro charge up and down slopes aswell as flat surfaces? Or would slopes prevent it? Can you make a polygon based update of the demo, where Spyro can walk on the sloped surfaces? Gorgeous art by the way.

RadSpyro wrote:

Ah, but that's why Spyro only takes a few hits to be defeated - I imagine most of the dragon enemies would require more than that, and a boss would be looking at ideally about 10 or so hits.

Generally I meant that there were dragons scattered all through the world, and one dragon who just happens to be a bit stronger than the rest towards the end.

...

But for now, let's see what our programmers have to say. How do you all feel about some of these things? Would they be hard to code? smile

Well I am going to share some thoughts, based not only on my own position as a writer in this group, but someone who designs games aswell, and loves the original Spyro for what it was and what they tried to and succeeded in accomplishing. You say '10 hits' to defeat a dragon boss. Think of bosses in Spyro 1. I know later games gave bosses health bars, but Spyro 1 did not. And while later Spyro games bosses were more cinematic and dramatic, Spyro 1 bosses required more actual skill. Yes some bosses in later were 'harder' but that is not the same thing as skill. It is harder to dig a hole with a spoon than a shovel, though I wouldn't say it takes more skill.

To illustrate my point, take Dr. Shemp. No health bar of course, simply flame him in the back 3 times to win. Though he has a staff he chases you with and swings at you sideways with. Each time you flame him, he speeds up and swings his staff in new patterns. This is SKILL based boss.

Adult Dragons are stronger than Dr. Shemp, and he is one of the more tricky bosses in Spyro, especially for new players. Can you see why I think we'd only have Adult Dragons as a boss? Rather than "scattered all through the world"? If they are used this way in the levels, then you either have boss like enemies flying around the world(I remind you adult dragons can fly), or you make them weaker than a boss but then they arn't really DRAGONS. So I suggest only one dragon boss, if there is only one world, and a story to fit that, such as the one suggested in my previous post.
http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g37 … con-10.gif

Woah, no need to get like that. I don't believe at any point did I say 'Stop sharing your thoughts', all I was doing was responding to you about my reasons. I can tell you're interested, since you seemed to join the forum solely to get on board with this. But let's not forget that all of us here share that same passion for Spyro games, so many of us will be passionate in our own way. For example, I want to create a new Spyro game - Not mimic one of the originals.

I suggested this based on the fact that it was an idea. At no point did I say 'we're having dragons so that's that'. You gave your thoughts, and I responded. All you needed to say was 'Honestly, it would work better with regular enemies, since it would be closer to the original game's style'. I have no problem if you really would prefer to have regular enemies instead. However, I still believe the 'trance' storyline works well, as it is reminiscent of the originals whilst still being unique enough to set it apart.

If you meant your words in a friendly manner, I apologise, but it seemed as though you were getting frustrated?


DeviantArt
Tumblr
Visit me and stuff.

Offline

#11 Jun 19, 2014 11:38 PM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

For example, I want to create a new Spyro game - Not mimic one of the originals.

An interesting statement. What does that mean to you? What I mean is, what would make it a 'spyro' game? Perhaps if it uses the same characters? Storyline? Or mechanics that makes Spyro games different from Mario or Zelda games(can you tell which one it is for me?).

If you meant your words in a friendly manner, I apologise, but it seemed as though you were getting frustrated?

While I was absolutely responding to the statement that 'for now, let's see what our programmers have to say' as if it meant that you thought there was no more we could discuss on the matter, and that I felt there was more to discuss, I did not mean a hostile tone(hense the kitty), which is backed up with a post that uses logic based statement to explain points. Of course how powerful an adult dragon is is subjective, so there is room for interpretation. Mine would be that we would never see them as anything less than a boss, and perhaps not everyone agrees, or finds that too limiting. Definitely something worth discussing.

Last edited by GameBoyBlue (Jun 20, 2014 12:10 AM)

Offline

#12 Jun 19, 2014 11:52 PM

RadSpyro
Member
From: Avalar (UK)
Registered: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 515
Gems: 0
Age: 30 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

GameBoyBlue wrote:

For example, I want to create a new Spyro game - Not mimic one of the originals.

An interesting statement. What does that mean to you? What I mean is, what would make it a 'spyro' game? Perhaps if it uses the same characters? Storyline? Or mechanics that makes Spyro games different from Mario or Zelda games(can you tell which one it is for me?).

For me, it's about still following the originals, but at the same time holding some form of uniqueness. Whether it's the storyline, the gameplay in general or the music, something has to set it apart. It's hard for me to describe.

While I was absolutely responding to the statement that 'for now, let's see what our programmers have to say' as if it meant that you thought there was no more we could discuss on the matter, and that I felt there was more to discuss, I did not mean a hostile tone(hense the kitty), which is backed up with a post that uses logic based statement to explain points. Of course how powerful an adult dragon is is subjective, so there is room for interpretation. Mine would be that we would never see them as anything less than a boss, and perhaps not everyone agrees, or finds that too limiting. Definitely something worth discussing.

Ah, what I meant by it was 'let's see how the programmers feel with our ideas so far in terms of capability' as opposed to anything else. I certainly didn't mean for it to be read like that, but I understand why it was taken that way.

I'd be happy to put another enemy in their place and, as you say, have Nestor as the final boss instead then. smile


DeviantArt
Tumblr
Visit me and stuff.

Offline

#13 Jun 20, 2014 12:20 AM

Flapjacks
Member
From: California, United States
Registered: Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 1,745
Gems: 0
Birthday: 5 October
Age: 20 years old
Gender: Male

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

CuttingEdge wrote:

If i got FLStudio Producer Edition then i could've tried to made sfx for effects ._.

i have it tongue i might be able to make some


Swaffy wrote:

I'm not sorry if I offended you.

Offline

#14 Jun 20, 2014 12:33 AM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

(Written before seeing your reply)
My frustration, or really dissatisfaction would be if we go down the path of designing an interactive story book, rather than a video game. Every character in StD serves a purpose. Sparx is a health bar. Dragon Statues are a platforming objective, and their dialogue is a reward and pause from the gameplay that tells the story. Every part has a purpose. Trust me, the story evolved from gameplay needs.

You make a point that a good story inspires a fan game team, and that's fine, so be it. But the greats, such as Miyamoto, and even the orginal Spyro team, try to make something fun to play first, then put the pieces together into a game, and story is the glue that holds it together where ever there are empty spaces. Some games fit together with less or no glue. We both signed up as writers, and I'm sure our different perspectives can work to make this game more well rounded if used that way. However, I joined up to help the creation of a Spyro video game. As long as that IS in fact what we are creating, I am happy to help, if it isn't then this simply isn't the right place for me, and it would be better to know that now rather than later anyway.



RadSpyro wrote:

For me, it's about still following the originals, but at the same time holding some form of uniqueness. Whether it's the storyline, the gameplay in general or the music, something has to set it apart. It's hard for me to describe.

I very much agree. One thing that bugged me about Spyro 3, was that it used the vases and baskets from Spyro 2, yet that makes no sense for the story, it should have been new containers because it a new place. So I definitely see where conventions can betray the art, and change is needed. If we wanted to shake up the gameplay in some new way that could be fun, though there are some things I feel we should not change. I can say it again, in just a few words: enemy interaction. This should not change! The enemies should still require Spyro to use his moves the proper way, and allow all those abilities to shine the way they were intended to. If everything changes, everything, but enemy interaction is still the core of the game, then I am pleased.


I'd be happy to put another enemy in their place and, as you say, have Nestor as the final boss instead then. smile

For someone passionate about change, you seem to be quite fond of Nestor(I had to look him up to find he was dragon #1). Well you know my thoughts. The gameplay is what is most important to me, and as a writer I am ready to jump in when that gameplay needs support. It was the writers who made the health bar a character, we do have an important job: to put the magic in the mundane. To make the ordinary, extraordinary. To reveal the story, hidden within the mechanics that are on their own, fun.

Offline

#15 Jun 20, 2014 1:23 AM

RadSpyro
Member
From: Avalar (UK)
Registered: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 515
Gems: 0
Age: 30 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

That's very true, but - This is only a small fangame. If we were aiming for a large fangame, I'd say that route would be much more viable. But right now, having a simple story (which, thinking about it isn't actually all that far away from the classic game anyway) doesn't seem to be a problem. We have our general gameplay - This won't be some complex DotD game with loads of combo moves. Thus, on this occasion, I do believe we can get away with having an interesting story with simple gameplay mechanics.
I joined up because I loved the idea of a small fangame made by a single community - Like the original sign up post said, possibly helping other folks by giving them some insight on how much work there is in a fangame. And besides that, I'm always snooping around Spyro projects of all kinds, trying to get involved in any way that I can spyro
But again, others may have joined up for other reasons. Either way, I'm generally considered an easy guy to work with, provided we can come to a compromise.

I agree entirely with enemy interaction.

I'm only fond of Nestor because he's the first dragon people tend to remember. And even then, if I'm being honest, my favorite dragon is Bubba, so there's no favoritism there at least. I'm just choosing what dragon seems most appropriate.

In fact, to quote Stormy's post:

Writing: Decide on and write a summary of the story. Should include plot/objectives, villain, and other characters.

...So on this particular occasion, you and I need to focus more on the story (at least for now). And perhaps inject the magic into the full storyline as you suggested (for example, the proposed changing backdrops), as opposed to concerning ourselves solely over the gameplay. Like, if the dragons aren't attacking Spyro, then who? The Gnorcs, maybe? Perhaps once Gnasty has been freed, the ability to return to the previous level becomes available and you can free the hypnotized dragons? Or could the dragons just be 'zombified', thus causing their intelligence to drop and giving Spyro a fighting chance at actually winning a fight against them?

I know I bring up the dragons again, but it's only because it works so well - You need something to save, and rescuing the dragons in this way makes sense, as it has a purpose. And if we follow Sheep's advice where Gnasty is the one who teaches you how to break them out of their trance, that makes the game slightly longer - You'll need to revisit the first level again and get through. The hypnotized dragons could be blocking one pathway, forcing you to find an alternative route. On your second run of the level, with the power to un-hypnotize them, it's a lot easier and thus won't wear people's interest down (since so many people find it tiresome to play through levels twice).

The gems could return, perhaps even becoming a meter of sorts, which not only allows you to progress further, but also allows you to save some of the more 'deeply hypnotized' dragons found in later levels. When you rescue them, they drop behind a special gem and once all have been obtained, the final boss opens up for you. That way you need to rescue dragons and obtain the gems, rather than skip to the end of the level with relative ease.


DeviantArt
Tumblr
Visit me and stuff.

Offline

#16 Jun 20, 2014 1:55 AM

RangerOfIthilien
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: May 12, 2010
Posts: 4,934
Gems: -370
Birthday: 30 March
Age: 28 years old
Gender: Male

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

For the programmers!

Github Tutorial

* This is under the assumption that you already have a Github account, have Windows, and have the client installed.

1) PM your Github username to Stormy, she will add you as a contributor to the project.

2) Once added, Your Github homepage should look like the spoilered screenshot below. Click the link to the repository inside any of the red boxes of the screenshot to access the repository page.

Hidden text

2PZk0Ck.png

3) From the repository page, click the "Clone in Desktop" button.

Hidden text

ApqQp5k.png

4) Go to your client. Once the code is done installing to the file location you have set up, you should see it listed like below. If you don't know where this directory is, hover over the Spyroforum/game box in the client and it will tell you.

Hidden text

LMBOO1t.png

5) Opening the repository in the client should show a view like this:

Hidden text

1dzt39F.png

6) Make your changes in your text editor of choice.

7) Opening the project from the client again should show a view like this:

Hidden text

0Vi8uGQ.png

8) Use a good commit title and message. Title should be a general, high-level summary of your changes, and the description should give it a more technical description.

9) Click the "Commit" button. Once the commit is complete (if there are no conflicts, we will discuss how to handle those later) your client will look like this:

Hidden text

ALQqtMx.png

10) Your commit will be shown where the yellow box is in the screenshot. Click "Sync" to merge your changes (or Push and Pull, if you'd like the technical terms wink )

You will then be able to see your changes from either your client, or the commit section of the repository page. This is where I will do my code reviews, so check back here often! If nobody responds to my review, I will remind you in the forum.

Some things I'd like to stress about Github

1) Do not commit unworking or untested code! It will break things for everyone else, you should be fixing your own bugs, not forcing them on others.
    a) Unless all the programmers have agreed to work together to solve a bug, or something similar. In general, just keep your teammates in mind and try not to make their work harder for them.

2) Do not abuse the fact that you have shared code! Don't go removing or changing someone else's code without their knowledge and consent! This is a team project, not a race over who is the best programmer.

3) Things will go wrong. A lot. Github is very picky software. If you have questions, ask me. (or stack overflow tongue)

Happy coding!

Last edited by RangerOfIthilien (Jun 20, 2014 1:58 AM)


Chessmaster
Level 67

Offline

#17 Jun 20, 2014 1:58 AM

Stormy
Administrator
Award: Admin
From: Illinois
Registered: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 10,237
Gems: 601
Birthday: 3 April
Gender: Female
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

The story's looking good so far!

@Breaking Bad, whatever works for you guys. I wouldn't want anyone to spend a ton of time on a sprite only to have it rejected, though.

@Flapjacks, you could talk to 36IStillLikeSpyro36 and see if he wants any help on the sound effects. If so, I'll add you to that team as well.

@Programmers: Neotyguy40 (or Slabity on Spyrochat) is going to be joining you as a programmer. Also, Github is set up, and KingLambda is writing a tutorial for using it as I write this post.


Come watch me play dance games and other stuff on Twitch!

Offline

#18 Jun 20, 2014 2:00 AM

RangerOfIthilien
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: May 12, 2010
Posts: 4,934
Gems: -370
Birthday: 30 March
Age: 28 years old
Gender: Male

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Beat you to it tongue

EDIT: Code review #1 and an idea of how those will work going forward!

At the commits page click the relevant commit title (in this case "kjsahdklqjsd") to see the changes made with my comments scattered throughout. Reply to my messages by clicking the "Add a line note" button if necessary, or make the changes I suggest and commit/sync them. This first code review isn't a big deal, just wanted to demonstrate how I intend to do this going forward.

Last edited by RangerOfIthilien (Jun 20, 2014 2:35 AM)


Chessmaster
Level 67

Offline

#19 Jun 20, 2014 4:27 AM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

I have a suggestion for the gameplay. I hope that's not taboo for a writer, as I know we all have many different talents. Sheep's art, and RadSpyro's past experience with fan games, for example.

Here is my suggestion. Enemies do not give you damage for touching them.

...letting that sink in...

If you recall in Spyro 1, its the same way, and I don't think we should do this to be nostalgic, its good design.
Making it so enemies only hurt you in their attack animation will be a strong step towards that 'enemy interaction' I keep talking about.

I've also been thinking whether or not it would be best if enemies are solid or you can walk past them. And I don't really know if one is an obvious choice. If you can walk past them it will feel more 3D, as you could walk past enemies in Spyro unless you were in a corridor, and we don't want our whole game to feel like a corridor do we? Perhaps BIG enemies could be solid, blocking your path, and little ones not?
cute_cat_emoticon_by_irocandrew-d4ux43m.gif

Offline

#20 Jun 20, 2014 5:26 AM

36IStillLikeSpyro36
Member
From: here: tinyurl.com/ihb5ycbc
Registered: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 16,658
Gems: -2,965
Birthday: 2 August
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

^ i agree that touching enemies shouldn't damage you, although that's up to the other people to decide, but i always liked that about Spyro games. in other games i played, just touching things would hurt you even when they hadn't attacked or anything and i always thought that was kind of silly

about sound Stormy i'm fine for now. if i need help i'll deny it come say something here.


36sig.png
"Burping a lot lately 36?" - Mr. John

Offline

#21 Jun 20, 2014 7:36 AM

Sheep
Member
Award: Skateboard Contest Winner
From: Norway
Registered: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 983
Gems: 0
Birthday: 20 January
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

GameBoyBlue wrote:

You make a point that a good story inspires a fan game team, and that's fine, so be it. But the greats, such as Miyamoto, and even the orginal Spyro team, try to make something fun to play first, then put the pieces together into a game, and story is the glue that holds it together where ever there are empty spaces. Some games fit together with less or no glue.

I guess the thing here is that we already have (most) and know the core mechanics of Spyro games, so that's partially the story's function here too. (I could be wrong tongue)

GameBoyBlue wrote:

I have a suggestion for the gameplay. I hope that's not taboo for a writer, as I know we all have many different talents. Sheep's art, and RadSpyro's past experience with fan games, for example.

Here is my suggestion. Enemies do not give you damage for touching them.

...letting that sink in...

If you recall in Spyro 1, its the same way, and I don't think we should do this to be nostalgic, its good design.
Making it so enemies only hurt you in their attack animation will be a strong step towards that 'enemy interaction' I keep talking about.

I agree about this.

GameBoyBlue wrote:

I've also been thinking whether or not it would be best if enemies are solid or you can walk past them. And I don't really know if one is an obvious choice. If you can walk past them it will feel more 3D, as you could walk past enemies in Spyro unless you were in a corridor, and we don't want our whole game to feel like a corridor do we? Perhaps BIG enemies could be solid, blocking your path, and little ones not?
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ … 4ux43m.gif

Now that's an interesting problem smile

Maybe if the floors/platforms look a little bit 3d, or have a flat surface on the top, and not completely 2-dimensional like in Super Mario.
Like do in Spyro: Orange, for example(but without seeing walls slightly from the side):
19161.jpg

We could place enemies at two (or three) different depth levels, one being in the middle of that flat surface, where Spyro is, and they're solid, the other being slightly higher up/further into the image, where you can move past them. (third one would be slightly lower and closer to the camera, but I don't think this one would be necessary.)

Then all enemies could both be solid and unsolid, and we could probably even have some of the enemies moving between the different depths. This would make it possible to have things like a row of small enemies that you have to time your charging in order to kill in one go. (assuming you can only charge solid enemies)

Maybe the solid ones also have a slightly stronger outline to their sprite to signify solidness, if we use outlines for objects, and we find a way to do it dynamically(a possible solution would be to draw the sprite a few extra times with it's position offset by a pixel in different directions, but it might be slow).


About dragons as enemies:
I would prefer the diversity of different kinds of enemies other than just dragons, but they could of course be a game/story themed enemy that is in every level, stronger than the other ones and act as an objective.

Last edited by Sheep (Jun 20, 2014 7:45 AM)

Offline

#22 Jun 20, 2014 8:43 AM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Perhaps that could work, having enemies at 3 different depths, though personally, I do like the aesthetic in your mock up over Spyro Orange. If you really like the 3 layer idea and it makes a lot of sense to you, perhaps I'd need to see it in action to appreciate it fully. It sounds kind of busy to me. I don't know how much work it is to you, and you'd have to choose if it was worth it. But perhaps the others will click with it more than I do based on your description.

I guess the thing here is that we already have (most) and know the core mechanics of Spyro games, so that's partially the story's function here too. (I could be wrong tongue)

Let me quote a PM I sent to RadSpyro recently:

I wanted to explain what I was talking about, and I think I have the perfect example.
Lets say we find out the best way to make an enemy challenging is to make it bounce. Well then it might make sense to make them evil bunnies.
And if the bad guys are evil bunnies, then maybe the villain is a magician pulling them out of his hat.
Now if we had decided on a story before we knew about how bouncing enemies work so well for the game, bouncing might not make sense for - hypnotized dragons for instance. Or maybe it would be ok, but it would at least seem a little off.
Are you kind of seeing where I'm going with this? Why for in this instance, it was better to create a blank enemy, and then make sense of it, rather than try to make the enemy fit a story?

Does this viewpoint make some sense to you Sheep? Enemy playtesting and discovery, could lead into the perfect story.

Offline

#23 Jun 20, 2014 2:58 PM

Sheep
Member
Award: Skateboard Contest Winner
From: Norway
Registered: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 983
Gems: 0
Birthday: 20 January
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

GameBoyBlue wrote:

Perhaps that could work, having enemies at 3 different depths, though personally, I do like the aesthetic in your mock up over Spyro Orange. If you really like the 3 layer idea and it makes a lot of sense to you, perhaps I'd need to see it in action to appreciate it fully. It sounds kind of busy to me. I don't know how much work it is to you, and you'd have to choose if it was worth it. But perhaps the others will click with it more than I do based on your description.

(I was mostly leaning towards 2 different depths) Here's a quick edit of my mockup to show how it could look with the 2-layer system.
polygonconcept3.png
(The white line isn't visible, but just shows here where the ground is under Spyro and solid enemies).
It shouldn't be a lot of work, just adding property to enemies in general, make this property affect the drawing position, and make the property determine whether or not to do collision checking against the enemy.
It might not be clear enough, and would probably cause some confusion to begin with, and if it's a flying enemy, or you can't see the ground it's standing on, you have to guess if it's solid or not. Although, specific enemies could have specific depths, to avoid most of the confusion.

If they're all solid, Spyro could still be able to jump over most of the small ones, while the bigger ones serve as break-able blockades.

GameBoyBlue wrote:

*quote from PM*
Does this viewpoint make some sense to you Sheep? Enemy playtesting and discovery, could lead into the perfect story.

Yeah, it makes some sense, though your example seemed a little far-fetched to me(single bouncing enemy => magician villain).
But, not every enemy needs a deep connection with the main story. The dragons would be able to serve a good portion of niches in the enemy lineup, like Gnorcs and Rhynocs do in StD and YotD, though not as many, since they probably aren't of the small and charge-able type.
I'm against having all the enemies being dragons, as that both wouldn't work too well with the gameplay, and would be monotonous. The rest could be various creatures more based on specific enemy behaviors, and I don't know... driven hostile against dragons in general(and therefore also Spyro) by the entranced dragons' new behavior(there are many possible explanations). When these are in place, the level specific stories, if there are any, could be based on all of it.
So if they're acting as enemies, I imagine around 4 dragons in each level, and around 7 others. Or at least a similar ratio.

Offline

#24 Jun 20, 2014 6:10 PM

36IStillLikeSpyro36
Member
From: here: tinyurl.com/ihb5ycbc
Registered: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 16,658
Gems: -2,965
Birthday: 2 August
Age: 25 years old
Gender: Male
Website

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

i feel like having the enemies at different depths in a 2D game would be confusing. just my thoughts.


36sig.png
"Burping a lot lately 36?" - Mr. John

Offline

#25 Jun 20, 2014 6:53 PM

GameBoyBlue
Member
Registered: Jun 16, 2014
Posts: 42
Gems: 0

Re: Spyroforum Fan Game - Week of June 16th

Bouncing enemies to magician villain was meant as a bit of a joke, but if it illustrates how design can inspire story, then it served its purpose. If we make a story early, and some people find that a help, good. Just so long as we don't grow overly attached to it, and it can morph or be thrown out to make room for new or better ideas later. I would just wait until we have some working enemies, but I can understand why others may not, as RadSpyro explained to me, an early story can be a sort of goal, though then again I have the concern of people getting overly attached to something that may not jive with what we make.


As for your 2 lane concept Sheep. Well for one flying enemies could leave a shadow, perhaps that would resolve when you "can't see the ground it's standing on" problem.
2 lanes or 3 it still feels a little... like Spyro bowling or something. If you really like this idea and it makes sense to you, then I believe in it too, atleast until we see a prototype.

If you're just volunteering ideas, I still like mine better. Only 1 lane, but you can pass through enemies unless they are in an attack animation. Perhaps big enemies could have a 'belly bounce' that pushes you back.


You make that canyon level look good enough to eat(play). I would like to see canyon formations in the background as a slowly scrolling background.
tumblr_inline_mh8xmhlbOi1qz4rgp.gif

Edit: Oh, is it like Spyro is only in the white lane, and enemies jump in from the back to the white lane? I'm not sure what I think of it, but it sounds interesting to some extent atleast. Kinda has an adventure fighting game feel like Ninja Turtles Arcade, Double Dragon or Battle Toads if it's like that.

Edit Edit: Are those... bunny gnorcs? With a carrot strapped on thier head??

Last edited by GameBoyBlue (Jun 20, 2014 7:22 PM)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB