Compact Discs and Piracy

riverhippo · Apr 01, 2011 9:25 AM

As in, uses audio CDs in traditional CD players for music purposes. A CD playing in a computer would count, but not if you're just ripping it into an MP3.

I thought about this the other day, and had to think real hard.

It's amazing how things change. I'm interested to see how this poll turns out.

I imagine most people that have used one recently related to their car stereo.

Neotyguy40 · Apr 01, 2011 3:31 PM

riverhippo wrote:

As in, uses audio CDs in traditional CD players for music purposes. A CD playing in a computer would count, but not if you're just ripping it into an MP3.
I thought about this the other day, and had to think real hard.
It's amazing how things change. I'm interested to see how this poll turns out.
I imagine most people that have used one recently related to their car stereo.

What's a CD?

Dark Fury Dragon · Apr 27, 2011 8:11 PM

I recently bought a CD for a band when I went to Best Buy. Before that though, I've been getting online downloads for the longest time. I believe years haha.
I still get CDs but only for the purpose of collecting. I get music by online and just get the CDs to just have them. I'm weird like that.
As for actually using a CD player, I can't even remember.

Swaffy · Apr 27, 2011 10:10 PM

If I had money to spend on music, I would definately buy the CD with the
case and all. I only use the Internet to buy music if I don't want a full
album. And since I don't have any money to be spending on music, I use
my close friend, { banned website }.

Neotyguy40 · Apr 27, 2011 10:30 PM

Swaffy wrote:

If I had money to spend on music, I would definately buy the CD with the
case and all. I only use the Internet to buy music if I don't want a full
album. And since I don't have any money to be spending on music, I use
my close friend, { banned website }.

I thought you hated stealing Swaffy.

riverhippo · Apr 27, 2011 11:01 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Swaffy wrote:

If I had money to spend on music, I would definately buy the CD with the
case and all. I only use the Internet to buy music if I don't want a full
album. And since I don't have any money to be spending on music, I use
my close friend, { banned website }.
I thought you hated stealing Swaffy.

(I can't believe I'm defending Swaffy...)

How come you automatically assume he's stealing something.

prince-Dari · Apr 29, 2011 4:40 PM

riverhippo wrote:

Neotyguy40 wrote:
Swaffy wrote:

If I had money to spend on music, I would definately buy the CD with the
case and all. I only use the Internet to buy music if I don't want a full
album. And since I don't have any money to be spending on music, I use
my close friend, { banned website }.
I thought you hated stealing Swaffy.
(I can't believe I'm defending Swaffy...)

How come you automatically assume he's stealing something.

He assumes that because Swaffy says he would only buy music if he had money to spend on it. Swaffy then continues to say he has no money to spend on music, however he implies that he still acquires the music. Therefore Swaffy acquires music without paying money for it, from a site called "{ banned website }". This would lead many people to believe that Swaffy has pirated - and hence stolen - music.

Happy (Also I have no problems with pirating)?

Neotyguy40 · Apr 29, 2011 10:49 PM

riverhippo wrote:

Neotyguy40 wrote:
Swaffy wrote:

If I had money to spend on music, I would definately buy the CD with the
case and all. I only use the Internet to buy music if I don't want a full
album. And since I don't have any money to be spending on music, I use
my close friend, { banned website }.
I thought you hated stealing Swaffy.
(I can't believe I'm defending Swaffy...)

How come you automatically assume he's stealing something.

{ banned website } is for pirating. Pirating is stealing. Stealing is bad. People that steal do bad things. People who do drugs do bad things. Cocaine is a drug. Cocaine is found in Columbia. Swaffeh is Columbus. Columbus stole and enslaved many natives. That makes Swaffeh a thief.

Seriously, it's not that hard to grasp. Pirating is bad and for criminals. Don't do it.

Aicebo · Apr 30, 2011 1:42 AM

I buy lots of CDs regularly, but don't really listen to them in a CD player other than the car.

Swaffy · Apr 30, 2011 3:03 AM

I don't like stealing. Stealing is bad. I was trying to say that I buy music
when I can and have the ability to. If I want a song or a few and have no
money to buy them, I use the alternative, which is pirating.

I misused a single world and all of you Atheists jump on me like you're all
dogs and I'm a fresh cut of bacon.

And no human being [except Jesus] is perfect. Not me, not you, not
Aicebo or SpyroRocks. No one is perfect. People make bad decisions.

I pirate stuff. Whoop-dee-doo. It's a problem that I don't worry about
fixing. This world has much more to worry about than pirating music and
fixing the environment [yes, I had to throw that in]. People need to fix
themselves before worrying about other stuff.

I'm not mad. Nor am I frustrated. I'm telling the truth; I'm being realistic.

The end. Did you enjoy my calm little rant, Atheists?

Neotyguy40 · Apr 30, 2011 3:33 AM

Swaffy wrote:

I don't like stealing. Stealing is bad. I was trying to say that I buy music
when I can and have the ability to. If I want a song or a few and have no
money to buy them, I use the alternative, which is pirating.

Pirating is stealing. Just because you can't see the person you harm, doesn't mean the harm isn't there.

Swaffy wrote:

I misused a single world and all of you Atheists jump on me like you're all
dogs and I'm a fresh cut of bacon.

That was...

Sort of out of the blue...

Swaffy wrote:

And no human being [except Jesus] is perfect. Not me, not you, not
Aicebo or SpyroRocks. No one is perfect. People make bad decisions.

Again, where the heck did that come from?

Swaffy wrote:

I pirate stuff. Whoop-dee-doo. It's a problem that I don't worry about
fixing. This world has much more to worry about than pirating music and
fixing the environment [yes, I had to throw that in]. People need to fix
themselves before worrying about other stuff.

Unless pirating is an addiction, I don't think it would require "fixing" for "themselves". It's a simple matter of "just don't do it."

Swaffy wrote:

I'm not mad. Nor am I frustrated. I'm telling the truth; I'm being realistic.

I never said you weren't being realistic. I'm just saying pirating is bad.

Swaffy wrote:

The end. Did you enjoy my calm little rant, Atheists?

I feel like something happened I wasn't here for... Mind explaining the sudden feeling of oppression from the Atheist(s)?

The reason I take offense to pirating is because I plan on making software throughout my life, my brother makes digital music as an artist, and I once interned at a small gaming studio. Pirating is specifically towards software, so it easily feels like it is directed towards people like me, my brother, and the game studios.

prince-Dari · Apr 30, 2011 1:25 PM

I find it pretty funny that you assume that I'm an Atheist simply because I didn't agree with what you said. I'd say that I'm Agnostic.
Also - Neotyguy40 - theoretical money doesn't exist, if I have no intention of buying something whether it is available for free or not then it makes no difference whether I pirate it or not. Either way the company makes no money from it. With software, games, and music I only ever pirate stuff that I wouldn't otherwise buy - I have a lot of pirated stuff, but also a lot of legally bought stuff.

Neotyguy40 · Apr 30, 2011 5:42 PM

prince-Dari wrote:

I find it pretty funny that you assume that I'm an Atheist simply because I didn't agree with what you said. I'd say that I'm Agnostic.
Also - Neotyguy40 - theoretical money doesn't exist, if I have no intention of buying something whether it is available for free or not then it makes no difference whether I pirate it or not. Either way the company makes no money from it. With software, games, and music I only ever pirate stuff that I wouldn't otherwise buy - I have a lot of pirated stuff, but also a lot of legally bought stuff.

What's the difference if you steal a physical copy of something? For example, a thief has no intention of buying that new PS3 game because "whether it is available for free or not it makes no difference whether he steals it or not" according to you.

What makes pirating any different than going into a retail store and taking a game off the shelf?

1. Is it because digital software has no manufacturing costs like CDs do? CDs cost about 16 cents each to manufacturer, print on, package, and ship. It would be literally a dime-nickel-penny worth if you stole a game from a store. That's less than the price of a strip of gum. This makes no difference between stealing and pirating. The only difference is it's showing that you are afraid of having a guilty conscience.

2. Is it because of anonymity? Obviously, you are less likely to get caught pirating something than directly stealing a copy. If this is your reason, than it's proof that it is the exact same as walking into a store and stealing it. The only difference is that you are a coward when you do.

3. Maybe it's convenience? It's a lot easier to sit at your computer and press a few buttons than it is to go all the way to a store and steal one directly. Again, this still makes no difference between the two. It only depicts that the pirate is lazier than the thief.

4. Only other reason I could think of is that "Everyone else is doing it". Therefore, it only makes sense that a typical conformist would want to do that. Right? I guess this makes sense... Or at least it does to people who pirate, especially when it is the only reason I could think of that marks a difference between the two actions.

Wow, I can't believe I'm saying this. But I have to respect thieves more than pirates... I mean, a shoplifter does bad things. But a pirate does the exact same, except they are lazy, cowardly, conformists who lie to themselves to make themselves feel better.

When you pirate a game, a company has to pay for it. In the form of royalties, taxes, or other percentage form each time a game gets activated. For example, Frictional Games has to pay 40% of their profits each time someone activates a game on it (whether it is pirated or not). That is not including when their prices are 50% off (so during these generous sales it's actually 80% of the profits they must pay). They are a small company of barely 10 people who develop incredible games. Yet they almost went bankrupt because people like you kept pirating their new game. Another example is 2D Boy (makers of World of Goo). They must pay $2 or $4 (depending on where it was bought) for each copy of their game activated. World of Goo is a heavily pirated game, and the reason most people gave? Same as your reason, "It isn't a game I would normally buy, but I wanted it". But I bet you didn't know companies still had to pay for that kind of stuff.

And pirating doesn't ONLY hurt the companies that make the things. It also hurts the rest of us consumers who actually do the right thing. ISP companies throttle peer-to-peer sharing thanks to people who turned torrents into a network of pirating users. Now everyone who uses these kind of downloads (including things like SVN and Akamai) must suffer through slower downloads just because some people wanted "To play a game they wouldn't normally play".

Of course, I know that pirates like you will just blame others. "I'm not the only one who pirates," or "It's the company's fault for their pricing!" or "They're a company, so they must have a lot of money and shouldn't care" or "We never told the ISPs to throttle us."

Have fun helping society.

Swaffy · Apr 30, 2011 7:06 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Pirating is stealing. Just because you can't see the person you harm, doesn't mean the harm isn't there.

Yes, I am aware of that.

Neotyguy40 wrote:

That was...
Sort of out of the blue...

I have enough blue to go around, would you like some? : )

Neotyguy40 wrote:

Again, where the heck did that come from?

You treat me like I'm supposed to be perfect.

Neotyguy40 wrote:

The reason I take offense to pirating is because I ...

When I get a job, I'll buy instead of pirating. Bottom line.
[hr:4e8c2cabf5]

prince-Dari · Apr 30, 2011 7:18 PM

Neotyguy40 wrote:

When you pirate a game, a company has to pay for it. In the form of royalties, taxes, or other percentage form each time a game gets activated. For example, Frictional Games has to pay 40% of their profits each time someone activates a game on it (whether it is pirated or not). That is not including when their prices are 50% off (so during these generous sales it's actually 80% of the profits they must pay). They are a small company of barely 10 people who develop incredible games. Yet they almost went bankrupt because people like you kept pirating their new game. Another example is 2D Boy (makers of World of Goo). They must pay $2 or $4 (depending on where it was bought) for each copy of their game activated. World of Goo is a heavily pirated game, and the reason most people gave? Same as your reason, "It isn't a game I would normally buy, but I wanted it". But I bet you didn't know companies still had to pay for that kind of stuff.

You seem to be talking about online games above. I've never used the online service on a game I've pirated. Unless you're telling me that when I play a downloaded PS3 game offline, the company knows I've done this, and has to pay for it?

Stealing and pirating are different in that when you steal something it is worth money(like you said, the money for the CD and case) - and is a real, tangible thing, when you pirate something, it isn't worth anything if you weren't ever planning to buy it. Otherwise as you said, it's the same thing.

Also, I never said that pirating didn't hurt companies or inflict problems on other people (companies raising prices due to piracy), I just said that no company has lost many due to me pirating something.

Neotyguy40 wrote:

And pirating doesn't ONLY hurt the companies that make the things. It also hurts the rest of us consumers who actually do the right thing. ISP companies throttle peer-to-peer sharing thanks to people who turned torrents into a network of pirating users. Now everyone who uses these kind of downloads (including things like SVN and Akamai) must suffer through slower downloads just because some people wanted "To play a game they wouldn't normally play".

I wouldn't know about that, I always seem to get a good speed on torrents. smile

Swaffy · Apr 30, 2011 7:44 PM

prince-Dari wrote:

I wouldn't know about that, I always seem to get a good speed on torrents.

My torrent downloads are usually 10 to 20 times faster than downloads
from purchasing sites or even freeware sites. It depends on how many
seeders, really. My Battlefield 1942 torrent has over 100 seeders
[currently at 187 seeds] and the 2.36 Gb download finishes within seconds.

In short, I agree with what you said.

[Edit] 203 seeders now.

ontels · Apr 30, 2011 8:17 PM

If only we could hang online pirates like we can with sea ones...

prince-Dari · Apr 30, 2011 8:45 PM

ontels wrote:

If only we could hang online pirates like we can with sea ones...

Hm, and I was under the impression that you lived in the UK, not Somalia.

ontels · Apr 30, 2011 9:45 PM

Ok so we can't hang even sea pirates but we can jail them for life.

Neotyguy40 · May 01, 2011 12:00 AM

ontels wrote:

Ok so we can't hang even sea pirates but we can jail them for life.

Pirates may go to jail for life, but pirates can only be sentenced up to 10 years...

Something must be done...

Swaffy · May 01, 2011 2:55 AM

They can send a fire squad my way to shoot me. I don't know how well
that'll blow over. I'm sure you'd enjoy it [sarcasm].

Stormy · May 01, 2011 6:20 AM

Swaffy wrote:

Neotyguy40 wrote:
Pirating is stealing. Just because you can't see the person you harm, doesn't mean the harm isn't there.
Yes, I am aware of that.
Neotyguy40 wrote:
That was...
Sort of out of the blue...
I have enough blue to go around, would you like some? : )
Neotyguy40 wrote:
Again, where the heck did that come from?
You treat me like I'm supposed to be perfect.
Neotyguy40 wrote:
The reason I take offense to pirating is because I ...
When I get a job, I'll buy instead of pirating. Bottom line.
[hr:720e98ccb1]

...You're aware that not having a job or money is a pretty poor excuse for stealing something you don't need, right? Would you go into a store and walk out with a candy bar you didn't pay for in your pocket because you "don't have the money"? One song usually costs about that much....

As for the original topic, I rarely used CDs to begin with, but the last time I did was probably to install software. I've never bought a music CD for myself. I have an old CD player my dad gave me, but the last time I even saw it it was years ago.

riverhippo · May 01, 2011 7:45 AM

I'm alright with this topic drifting to a piracy discussion, and I have changed the topic title.

But seriously, I do have a argument:

I think it's too much of a gray area of what is considered stealing as far as music goes. When you relate it as stealing a CD, of course, that is wrong. But consider this story I have outlined below and tell me at which point you consider it music piracy:

You whistle "Hotel California" by the Eagles.

Somebody listens to you whistle "Hotel California" by the Eagles.

You sing to the person "Hotel California" by the Eagles.

You sing to the person "Hotel California" by the Eagles and play a guitar while doing it.

You get a band together and perform for free to the person "Hotel California" by the Eagles.

Your band performs for free "Hotel California" by the Eagles in front of a few hundred people.

A friend makes a video of your band performing for free "Hotel California" by the Eagles in front of a few hundred people.

A friend uploads the video online of your band performing for free "Hotel California" by the Eagles in front of a few hundred people and make it free to download.

OK, so tell me IN YOUR OPINION, where you think it's considered piracy.

Stormy · May 01, 2011 8:08 AM

None of those are piracy, not even the last one since the band isn't making a profit from The Eagles' intellectual property. It would be piracy if the band uploaded a video of themselves, say, dancing to the original song and made it free to download or if they covered the song and made it available to download for $0.50 without legal permission.

I'm no expert on copyright laws, so I could be wrong about this, but I'm trying to base my definition of piracy on what I understand to be the legal definition, not my opinion.

Aicebo · May 01, 2011 10:05 AM

swaffy I just really wanna point out that the fact that you assume everyone that doesn't agree with you is an athiest even though it had nothing to do with religion? nothing religious was posted there at all; they simply said that they thought you didn't like to steal (which I'm sure you've said before on your own) you say that you know you bring up religion too much then why don't you try to stop?

and the thing about everyone thinking you're supposed to be perfect, you kind of act the same way with everyone else...sometimes it seems like you expect us all to be perfect too

@original discussion

I don't think that giving a song free to download is considered piracy. however if you're making money off of your cover without legal permissions, that's not good.

#1 Apr 01, 2011 9:25 AM

Compact Discs and Piracy

#2 Apr 01, 2011 3:31 PM

Re: Compact Discs and Piracy

#3 Apr 27, 2011 8:11 PM

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#4 Apr 27, 2011 10:10 PM

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#7 Apr 29, 2011 4:40 PM

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#8 Apr 29, 2011 10:49 PM

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#9 Apr 30, 2011 1:42 AM

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#11 Apr 30, 2011 3:33 AM

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