Atheist theories of the beginning of the universe have as much evidence as any religion's version, and by that I mean very little to none.

Nobody knows how it happened, if there was a way of knowing how the universe started then there wouldnt be any conflict over the matter (unless ignorant people ignored it) atheists that believe they know the answers need to learn the difference between theorising and knowing, religious people need to realise the difference between faith/belief and knowing.

Well fletch, should we really discuss religion for such a long time again, or end it right here to prevent some flame war?

Fletch_Talon wrote:

the problem is when it comes to belief systems people will often get offended very easily, ive experienced it elsewhere.

the reason is, any discussion regarding religion will have someone (ie. me) asking how you can believe in something when you have no proof, religious people then generally respond with "i know it in my heart" or something of that sort, atheists and agnostics being a bit more logical than that will argue that you cant know something without proof, then religious people generally get offended

the original post here wasnt offensive in any way, i think DPX was stating that discussion resulting from this topic is likely to end in tears, also i would not compare his behaviour to Doppel's and i fail to understand why you would do so

Tell me, fletch. How did the universe come to be, besides simply saying the big bang?

I don't know, and unlike the majority of religions (and the occasional stupid atheist) I have the guts to come out and admit that.

I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows, and its likely no living person ever will, when I die and should I meet some form of higher power who tells me how the universe came to be, THEN I will claim to know.

I don't trully believe in bible codes unless proven otherwise. They're not reliable to most people.

But I do believe in the book of revelations.

Bible Codes are bs. People have found 'coded messages' in Moby *bleep* as well. Its all just people making connections where they aren't there. For example, you know they didn't 'predict' 9/11 with Bible Codes until AFTER it happened?

the problem is when it comes to belief systems people will often get offended very easily, ive experienced it elsewhere.

the reason is, any discussion regarding religion will have someone (ie. me) asking how you can believe in something when you have no proof, religious people then generally respond with "i know it in my heart" or something of that sort, atheists and agnostics being a bit more logical than that will argue that you cant know something without proof, then religious people generally get offended

the original post here wasnt offensive in any way, i think DPX was stating that discussion resulting from this topic is likely to end in tears, also i would not compare his behaviour to Doppel's and i fail to understand why you would do so

Tell me, fletch. How did the universe come to be, besides simply saying the big bang?

"Each heart knows its own bitterness, and no one else can share its joy."  Proverbs 14:10.

I thought it sounded pretty cool.  Anyone else?

Again, like bmah said, if you're uncomfortable, fell free not to post. You don't have to.

If you are in any way offended or uncomfortable, don't post - you know people have beliefs and are set in their ways with those beliefs.

This.

Umm, and interesting finds, Adam. Coincidences, methinks.

Aicebo, I know you are a moderator and thus must moderate such threads, but if you don't want to read this one then don't I can moderate it myself.

I'm not even sure why I replied to this topic in the first place. I mean, I hate talking about my beliefs, and I hate talking about other people's beliefs too.

What I don't get, though, is why people have to put religion into everything. It just.... bugs me when they do.

Same here.
I get uncomfortable on the subject on religion...

What I don't get, though, is why people have to put religion into everything. It just.... bugs me when they do.

Philippians 1;29-30
For you have been given not only the privilege of trusting in Christ but also the privilege of suffering for him. We are in this fight together. You have seen me suffer for him in the past, and you know that i am still midst of this great struggle

2Corrinthians 4;18
So we don't look at our troubles we can see right now; rather we look forward to what we have not yet seen. For the troubles we see will soon be over, but the joys to come forever.

Genesis 45;4-5
"Come over here", he said. So they came closer. and he said again, "I am Joseph, your brother whom you sold into Egypt. But don't be angry with yourselves that you did this to me, for god did it.

Genesis 14;14-15
When Abram learned that Lot Had been captured, he called together men born into his household, 318 of them all. he chased after Kedraorlaomer's army until he caught up with them in Dan.

I won't say anything else because i want to know what you guys think before i say anything.

the problem is when it comes to belief systems people will often get offended very easily, ive experienced it elsewhere.

the reason is, any discussion regarding religion will have someone (ie. me) asking how you can believe in something when you have no proof, religious people then generally respond with "i know it in my heart" or something of that sort, atheists and agnostics being a bit more logical than that will argue that you cant know something without proof, then religious people generally get offended

the original post here wasnt offensive in any way, i think DPX was stating that discussion resulting from this topic is likely to end in tears, also i would not compare his behaviour to Doppel's and i fail to understand why you would do so

Don't get mixed up with the things that Doppel's infamous for. I'm not comparing dpx to that level. Just saying that both tend to jump to premature conclusions. If there's no issue to a situation, don't try to bring up the possibility of having one.

Anyways, simply by reading the first post of the thread, you can tell that the conversation is directed towards people with a certain religion. It's more than obvious that it's not catering to atheists/agnostics or people with other beliefs. If you are in any way offended, don't post - you know people have beliefs and are set in their ways with those beliefs. As such, you're hitting yourself against a brick wall if you try to counteract the thread with a different belief. Take it or leave it.
With some common sense, you can tell what threads are suitable and unsuitable for you to post. That way, it's easily possible to make religious topics and have a good time too. Have you been to a site that had a debate forum? This isn't unusual.
So I understand where DPX is getting at, but it's still IMO a premature response.

On-topic: could you please show us the actual references so I could compare the Bible's story to that of Spyro's, Adam? I'm not Christian but I would like to know anyhow.